Au pair / nanny duties -- am I being reasonable?

[CassieD]

WOndered if some other working mums with au pairss/nannies could lend their opinions on what is a resonable expectation. Our Au Pair / nanny is expected look after our 18 month old daughter from 7:00am until 7:00pm whilst I am at work. My husband generally leaves for work in Birmingham on Monday morning and returns on Thursday night, and works from home on Friday. So we expect a lot in terms of hours. She lives with us.

These are her duties:
Look after the toddler (including taking her to music class, tumble tots, church toddler group, swimming, etc.)
Keeping the kitchen clean, which includes doing my dishes
Laundry for the whole family, including ironing and putting away.

She does not vaccuum, dust scrub, clean the bathrooms, was the kitchen floor, etc. That, in my opinion, is the job of a cleaner (which am now about to seek -- I've never had one but I'm fed up woth my dirty house so I'm going to get one).

Last night I asked to her to fill out a sheet each day that had things like what dd eats for each meal, morning activities, afternoon activities, when she slept, ahen and what she watched on tv, and a space for other comments (like her mood and if she was in poor health, etc). Well, the nany said "no". She said she had enough to do and that didn't want to fill this form out.

I got the idea of this form from friends, who get a similar form every day when they pick their child up at nursery. I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to want to be informed each day. I am gone all day, so this is my way of knowing what dd does with her day. I need to know these things. Like, if she hates tumble tots, I need to know so I'm not forcing her to be miserable. This isn't the case with tumble tots, but if it was, I would need to know.

I also think that it is possible that the problem is partly a language barrier, and the new nanny (who has only recently started with us -- she is from Estonia) is actually objecting to having to write in enlgish, rather than just speak it.

I know that often au pairs are asked to do more of the house cleaning, but then I do realise that a toddler is a lot more work than older children.

Did anyone use an au pair / nanny when their children were toddlers? Am I being resonable? Or am I expecting too much?

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agree with twiglett - if she lives with you isn't it better to talk about your dd's day rather than have it all written down. I would think that the nurseries do it so that they don't have to talk to every parent at the end of the day.

Her official job title is au pair. But, as she has sole charge all day, every day her actual job description is a bit more like a nanny. She is qualified. She is 48, has two grown children and one grandson, divorced, degree in nutrition, degree in education, degree in veterinary studies. Seems overqualified really. She lives with us and earns about £160 / week on top of living expenses. We of course provide food, utilities, etc. We also provide her with a mobile phone. She also gets every fourth Friday off (paid).

Well - I think she's doing a lot for you. 12 hours a day, with an active 18-month old, is already very tiring, as obviously you know from when you have to do it. It might make a difference if, eg, your daughter sleeps twice a day, but even then - mealtimes, nappy changes, activities, dealing with moods - it's a long and pretty strenuous day. "Au pairs" doing a typical au pair job, including cleaning and so on, would not be expected to work more than 5 hours a day.

Most nannies doing 12-hour-days would only do "nursery" duties - which means no cleaning at all, and only children's laundry. So I have to say you've got a good deal, and if you (and your dd) like her, I would try to accommodate her so you don't lose her.

However, a "nanny diary" is something that dedicated nannies ought to be willing to do - mine have always done that. Perhaps you could approach it differently: maybe say, if you take on this diary job, we'll reduce the laundry/ironing work; or, how about we make time to have dinner together once a week, and then you can tell me all about how things are going (and you can scribble down on the form as she tells you)?

Um, I'd be inclined to agree with Twiglett. We get these sheets from dd's nursery but I know that they are filled in my someone who is not also expected to be keeping an eye on the child simultaneously.
Au pairs do help with tidying, sure, but they are not expected to do a 12 hour day as well. If she is really an "au pair", then isn't she supposed to have some free hours in the week to attend English classes etc? I was not expected to do more than five hours at a stretch when I was an au pair in France and only expected to tidy up after/"maintain" the children during that time.
And professional nannies often stipulate no housework in their contracts - I know friends with nannies are often downcast at how little is done around the house.
If you want my honest opinion you are expecting rather a lot from your au pair/nanny. I agree with Twiglett in that the end of the day, over a cup of tea, might be a much better time to find out about your dd's day. It will give your au pair/nanny practice in speaking English too.

the reason I like it written down is because I get home at 7:00, dd goes to bed at 8:00 (this is my only time with dd during the week). Then I have to sort through the mail, return phone calls, eat dinner myself, and so on... Basically that time is precious and I rather read a quick review whicst I eat dinner, than lose some of that precious time to my review...

But, perhaps my busy schedule isn't her problem. Maybe I'll have to make a point to be home at 6:30 rather than 7:00...

Thanks for your input. Honesty appreciated.

TBH I think she is incredibly underpaid for the hours and responsibilities you ahve given her. If she is an au pair then you need to decrease the hours she minds the toddler. If she is a nanny then you need to pay ehr more and she only does the children's cleaning/washing and not yours.

I think you have an absolute bargain for what she is doing so my advice would be 'don't push your luck'

Agree she works tremendously hard for really very little money. You won't find a British nanny who would do all that - certainly not all your washing. I don't know how she does it tbh. There is no ironing done in our house and our kitchen is rarely clean even with a cleaner. And an aupair works far fewer hours. I know people from Eastern Europe are cheaper, but even so, I think you have got a tremendously good deal already and wouldn't push it. I think she does have enough to do already. The amount of detail you seem to be looking for sounds almost like a full time job in itself - esp all the mood stuff. Most 18 month olds change their mood every ten minutes! If she lives with you, why not just chat when you get home, or your dh could do so on Fridays as they are in the house together.

I also think you work very long hours.

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The short answer is: I think you may be expecting too much.

When I (briefly) had a live-in nanny, she had fewer official household duties than your nanny (eg she'd never have to do my laundry or ironing) but as she and I were the only adults living in the house, we had an agreement that we'd both muck in with the cleaning, as hiring a cleaner wasn't an option. We viewed the running of the house as an equal partnership, an arrangement that made sense for our (somewhat particular) circumstances.

She had my toddler to look after (older ds was in school), and there was talk of her keeping a journal or sheet. The sheet lasted about a day, and then it was clear that she just didn't have time for it, especially since she's one of those people who finds writing to be a difficult and slow chore, despite English being her 1st language. I had no problem with her discontinuing the sheet. I knew that I, too, would have struggled to find time to keep a journal on the kids' activities after a hard days' work with the kids, especially the toddler.

If your point in keeping the sheet is to find out how your child fared during the day, best way to do that is to have a 5 min chat with your nanny when you take over.

I am not up to speed on rates of pay for live in but it sounds like you are getting a great deal here CassieD, certainly compared to the going rate for live out in London. If you are happy with her as a carer which it sounds as if you are, then I would bend to her will on this one. Keeping channels of communication clear is the key to making this work IMO, in my case I try (not always easy) to focus on catch up with nanny at one end of day or other, occasionally have a pre-arranged 'sit down' to hammer out any issues, and also keep a notebook that we can leave notes for each other - incredibly useful. HTH

Agree with Soapbox here.

Don't have nanny or au pair myself but many friends who do.

She already has an taxing workload and whether her English is up to the writing or not, it does sound like too much on top of what you expect already.

Is there any way you can get back earlier to talk about the day for 10/15 minutes over a coffee?

i agree with aloha
some work life balance is required!

Cod and Aloha - I don't think that you'll find that those hours are untypical, particularly for those amongst us who do the London commute (hell??) thing!

My understanding too, is that nannies tackle laundry for the children, but not other members of the family.
Surely if there was a big issue like a child feeling ill, upset or resisting a regular activity is something that would be discussed? I think a quick checklist of sleeps and what a child has eaten is fair enough.
She does work long hours.

I have had the same nanny for my DDs since DD1 was born 4 years ago. She also works 12 hours per day but 4 days per week - which is still a 48 hour week. I think a 60 hour week is very long. Sorry, but the form seems overkill to me and I don't know of any other nannies that fill them in. Firstly, you have to give them some latitude to do their own thing otherwise they will get fed up - my nanny left her previous job becuase of this. Secondly, why don't you just chat through these points - much less formal and probably more informative. For what it's worth, my nanny does the odd bit of shopping, does food for DDs and their dishes (not ours) and does their washing (no ironing - don't beleive in it !) but not ours. Normally nannies only look after the kids I think. Maybe I'm a soft touch (my DH thinks so) but my view is her main job is too look after the girls and anything else is a bonus.

I honestly don't mean to be critical of parents who have to work long hours, but in this case, esp as one parent is simply not present during the week, get the feeling that possibly CassieD is feeling that she is spending very little time with her child, is feeling bad/regretful/concerned about this and maybe needs a more radical rethink of her hours & working days than just asking a nanny to fill her in on every second that she is missing.

Thank you all for your opinions. Obviously, I am perhaps expecting a bit much. I had planned to hire a cleaner anyway. And tbh the nanny's ironing skills are not great. not bad, but not great either. So,I think I'll pull ironing from her scope as soon as I can land a weekly cleaner. And that should free up a bit more time and make her a bit happier. It is true that I like her and wouldn't want her to be unhappy. And, okay okay, I'll go for the chat..

As for the duties, nannies who don't do cleaning can get away with this because they have years of experience that my nanny doesn't have. She knew loud and clear that that was part of the job before she took it. So, I don't feel obligated to remove that from her task list. It's only cleaning the kitchen and doing laundry. The reason she has to do these is because I don't have time, and they have to be done more than weekly (a daily cleaner is not in my budget)

However I see now that she may have too much on her plate, and her primary responsibility is definitely dd care / happiness / etc.

Thanks everyone for your opinions. Some a bit harsh, but I appreciate the honesty.

If you like her - and more importantly your DD likes her - my advice is to do everything you can to keep her - so if she does start to have an issue with the housework aspect of the job, you will need to do something about it. If you have a demanding full time job and kids you come to realise that there is no time for you - by the time I put my DDs to bed, cook supper, tidy kitchen and house, sort out washing, get ready for next day, it is time for bed. (I also have a weekly cleaner but like you say these things have to be done daily) But ultimately it is my choice that I work like this rather than downshift and have more time/less cash.

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I may also make an effort to get home at 6:30 for my chat, and so still focus my attention to Hannah at 7:00. However, Aloha, a "radical rethink" of my hours and work schedule are not up for negotiation.

I am wholly and adomately dedicated to my career. And leaving early isn't going to help it much. I do not have this dedication in spite of my child, I do this FOR my child.

Sorry if I'm overreacting a bit, but I'm really fed up with people who never think to suggest that the father might rethink his work schedule. I mean bloody hell, he leaves on Monday (often on Sunday) and doen't come back until Thursday or Friday.

By the way, he thinks this is his right to leave all week. Now that I have a live-in employee, perhaps finally my career can have the same priviledge (although I'm not anxious or even willing to leave dd for the week, just making a point).

Yes, I realise I may have taken your words a bit further than intended... but boy oh boy I get all worked up on my right to have a career...

Okay, I'm finished with my rant... and I was really just getting startd.

what do you both do?