Au pair / nanny duties -- am I being reasonable?

[CassieD]

WOndered if some other working mums with au pairss/nannies could lend their opinions on what is a resonable expectation. Our Au Pair / nanny is expected look after our 18 month old daughter from 7:00am until 7:00pm whilst I am at work. My husband generally leaves for work in Birmingham on Monday morning and returns on Thursday night, and works from home on Friday. So we expect a lot in terms of hours. She lives with us.

These are her duties:
Look after the toddler (including taking her to music class, tumble tots, church toddler group, swimming, etc.)
Keeping the kitchen clean, which includes doing my dishes
Laundry for the whole family, including ironing and putting away.

She does not vaccuum, dust scrub, clean the bathrooms, was the kitchen floor, etc. That, in my opinion, is the job of a cleaner (which am now about to seek -- I've never had one but I'm fed up woth my dirty house so I'm going to get one).

Last night I asked to her to fill out a sheet each day that had things like what dd eats for each meal, morning activities, afternoon activities, when she slept, ahen and what she watched on tv, and a space for other comments (like her mood and if she was in poor health, etc). Well, the nany said "no". She said she had enough to do and that didn't want to fill this form out.

I got the idea of this form from friends, who get a similar form every day when they pick their child up at nursery. I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to want to be informed each day. I am gone all day, so this is my way of knowing what dd does with her day. I need to know these things. Like, if she hates tumble tots, I need to know so I'm not forcing her to be miserable. This isn't the case with tumble tots, but if it was, I would need to know.

I also think that it is possible that the problem is partly a language barrier, and the new nanny (who has only recently started with us -- she is from Estonia) is actually objecting to having to write in enlgish, rather than just speak it.

I know that often au pairs are asked to do more of the house cleaning, but then I do realise that a toddler is a lot more work than older children.

Did anyone use an au pair / nanny when their children were toddlers? Am I being resonable? Or am I expecting too much?

First of all Cassie, I do admire you for wanting to be successful in your career. I think that's a great role model for your daughter. But it also make logistics very difficult, especially when your husband is away so much.

Fair enough, your nanny agreed to the terms when she took the job, but I think you were very lucky to get her to do so.

I speak from the perspective of a former au pair. I ws an au pair in the US and I never heard of an au pair working 5 hours a day. My work day was 8-6. But I wasn't expected to do any cleaning on top of that. However as a member of the family I pitched in with doing dishes, laundry, etc.

Do you eat with your au pair when you get home from work? It would seem to me that there would be opportunities, even with your long hours, for you and her to have small conversations about how your daughter is doing. After all, you are living in the same house.

As an au pair I would have hated having a sheet like that to fill in. A child in a nursery is an entirely different thing. A sheet for an au pair feels like the parents don't really trust you. I'm sure your nanny would tell you if your daughter wasn't enjoying an activity or something. If you aren't sure, maybe you could say to her something like, you hate missing so much of your daughter's day to day activities so you would really appreciate it if she (nanny) would just let you know if anything out of the ordinary occurs.

By the way, I feel as though nanny and au pair are interchangable terms. At least when I was an au apir in the US, I had friends who were nannies and friends who were au pairs. The only difference was that the nannies were paid a lot more and most of the time weren't in the county legally!

I echo eefs post entirely.

Just curious - where do people find nannies who will work for these rates? Our live-out London nanny is £350 (net) for a 50 hour week and I am told by agencies this is now bottom of the band...

Yes, I suppose nanny/housekeeper is a fairer desription (although I still like "Domestic Saviour" ). However, she doesn't actully do that much house work. So, she is really a combination of these various roles. I suppose the fair comparison for her wages would be a nanny/housekeeper who has no or little formal "work" experience, and speaks English well but not proficiently as a second language.

Now what's the fair price?

When I interviewed her, I asked her why she would be interested in working for pannies as my au pair when she seemed so overqualified. She told me that what I was offereing was more than she could make in Estonia. ALso, she is learning English, and I have the burdon of teching it. That's worth something too.

OK, I lied -lunchtime is now well over and my boss probaby about to burst through the door from a meeting at any mo' but I am getting wound up by this now! CassieD, what did you think was going to happen to your life/career after you had a child? Presumably, your dh was well aware of your commitment to your career and you were also aware of his travel and leisure activities. So did you think things would continue as they were somehow or did you appreciate that some things would have to change? And if so, what? If neither of you are willing to compromise, the only loser is your daughter. She will find it very difficult at any age to understand why you are doing this FOR her.

My children are school-age too, soapbox, so I (and my nanny/housekeeper) do have the same deal as yours. But I've come across families - usually ones with lots of children, so school-age and tinies all together, & all of every day is a juggle for everyone - who do have nanny/housekeepers who mind and (eg) iron together. I do agree that it's important to ensure there isn't exploitation in that arrangement, but I don't think it's necessarily going to be unfair.

Natt - I'd love to know too!

I pay mine £200 net per week (live out)on average for a 22 hour week in term time and a 53 hour week in school holidays. 5 weeks holiday a year, use of car etc etc

OTOH I wouldn't leave the children with someone who wasn't qualified or very experienced - couldn't stand the guilt if something went wrong. So I guess you get what you pay for!

The Eastern European nannies I have been sent by agencies all go at the same rate and many (including current and lovely nanny) have imperfect English. I think the problem is that you will get people who are desperate doing the job for what is not really a fair market rate. I am not necessarily criticising those who use their labour. I am sure many people are paying what they can, If you can afford more, you should pay market rate IMV and i speak as someone with crippling childcare costs. you may also have issues with not paying the mimimum wage

issymum, no, sure, point taken

Well the trick is to cut out the agency. They have a vested interest in inflating the wages. I bet their statistics come from agency nannies, not all nannies.

Rest assured, I thank you all for your honest comments, and I will make some adjustments to improve her quality of life.

However, I truly and deeply resent the comments about how my working is harmful to my daughter. How would you like it all you SAHM if I said your views were little more than a self fulfilling prophecy? I bet you wouldn't like it. And, I'm not saying that. The benefits to my daughter of me working outweigh the drawbacks. I firmly believe that. That's why I'm here.

My complaints about my DH are that he doesn't put in his fair share. But, I live with it. And, my comment about the aupair/nanny/saviour... well I accept the overwhelming view of the overwhelming majority.

Cassie

The mums posting here are virtually all mothers who also work outside the home. So I don't think its SAHM's having a go!

It is just one of life's conundrums and one which most of us struggle with at some time or another. Guilt frequently rearing its ugly head...

Also - have never used an agency - so I think you've still got a bargain

By the way, for those who genuinely are interested in my hiring approach (rather than criticising it). I serched Greataupair and a few other nanny site seeking out suitable candidtates (greataupair has the best search facilities), them e-mailed them. Those who responded positively were then sent questionaires, then a few more questions. I asked my favorite to come interview. She was axious to accept (pending a response from her reference). The reference was good. I hired her. Job done. I talked salary and job description very early on to make sure she knew what she was in for.

Oh, and employees who live in your house are exempt from minimum wage laws.

How do the benefits outweighthe drawbacks Cassie D? I'm not being sarky here, just would like to know as I fail to see how.

To name a few:
1- If anything were ever to happen to DH, he could die, he could divorce me. It's grim, but these things happen. Then I could still provide a life for DD. I grew up in the states in 70s and 80s and saw a lot of divorced moms who struggle to make end meat while dad with new youg wife bought the childrens' love with walkmans and cool cars... sort of a bum deal for mom, who had to take a minimum wage job just buy the kids' dinner.

2- I'm a role model. My daughter won't grow up think men are supposed to support her. Hence, she will too will probably have a rewarding career.

3- HAppy mum (okay I don't appear as such today!) = happy baby

4- If my husband were a real jerk, I could leave him and take care of myself and my child. How many women stay with abusive partners and lead very unhappy live because they have no career, and hence are trapped there? And how happy do you suppose her kids are?

5- I can pay for some perks in life/child hood for DD (summer camp so she can get a taste of her American roots (I'm American), private school (if we choose that route, but we probably won't), travel, and so on...

Also, I firmly believe that quality of time spent with kids is sooooo much more important that quanitity. I think children couldn't care less who cleans their clothes, or makes them dinner. But, they DO care if you show up at their ballet recital. Or, if you saw them score the winning goal. They also care if you show up on visiting day at summer camp. There may be a time as dd gets older that I need to leave work to tend to her, and that I would of course do. But, I won't leave work to mop a floor. She doesn't care about a dirty house!

Oh, by the way, I'm going to take all of this as a compliment to my hiring skills...

Another point would be to hire from the countries which have just joined the EU. They are anxious to improve their English skills, hence work for a bit less. But, if you go for a young one (as I did last time) you may find they aren't quite as responsible. An older women with grown children of her own has experience (if not official "work" experience), and isn't looking to find herself a nice English man so she can have children of her own.

Well, I better do some work today!!!!

no comment

Hmmm - not trying to be inflammatory but my point before was that some people who are desperate will work for less but my onw view is that you should pay them at market rate if you can afford to...

I wouldnt have a pet, let alone a child if I couldnt look after it for more than an hour a day.

It alright, I'm not inflamed. I'm also not cold hearted. I haven't got tons of money to pay her with. And I have to leave some room for raises if she works out. She's only been here for a month. I do try to give her perks when I can (like the fourth Fridays off). We have four bedrooms, and she has the second biggest one.

Also, we plan to have another child. And, when that happens, I think all cleaning (except maybe that which is associated with the children) will be removed from her scope. Furthermore, I think when there are two children, she'll need a car. The longer she stays the more perks she'll have.

Critic, right, that's an appropriate name.