Au pair / nanny duties -- am I being reasonable?

[CassieD]

WOndered if some other working mums with au pairss/nannies could lend their opinions on what is a resonable expectation. Our Au Pair / nanny is expected look after our 18 month old daughter from 7:00am until 7:00pm whilst I am at work. My husband generally leaves for work in Birmingham on Monday morning and returns on Thursday night, and works from home on Friday. So we expect a lot in terms of hours. She lives with us.

These are her duties:
Look after the toddler (including taking her to music class, tumble tots, church toddler group, swimming, etc.)
Keeping the kitchen clean, which includes doing my dishes
Laundry for the whole family, including ironing and putting away.

She does not vaccuum, dust scrub, clean the bathrooms, was the kitchen floor, etc. That, in my opinion, is the job of a cleaner (which am now about to seek -- I've never had one but I'm fed up woth my dirty house so I'm going to get one).

Last night I asked to her to fill out a sheet each day that had things like what dd eats for each meal, morning activities, afternoon activities, when she slept, ahen and what she watched on tv, and a space for other comments (like her mood and if she was in poor health, etc). Well, the nany said "no". She said she had enough to do and that didn't want to fill this form out.

I got the idea of this form from friends, who get a similar form every day when they pick their child up at nursery. I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to want to be informed each day. I am gone all day, so this is my way of knowing what dd does with her day. I need to know these things. Like, if she hates tumble tots, I need to know so I'm not forcing her to be miserable. This isn't the case with tumble tots, but if it was, I would need to know.

I also think that it is possible that the problem is partly a language barrier, and the new nanny (who has only recently started with us -- she is from Estonia) is actually objecting to having to write in enlgish, rather than just speak it.

I know that often au pairs are asked to do more of the house cleaning, but then I do realise that a toddler is a lot more work than older children.

Did anyone use an au pair / nanny when their children were toddlers? Am I being resonable? Or am I expecting too much?

Message withdrawn

maybe not cold hearted CassieD but imho and I stress it is only my opinion, I just don't know why people (men included in this of course) have children and then spend so long apart from them.

my coldhearted comment was in reference to my domestic employee, not my child. My child loves me, I love her, she knows I love her. AND NO ONE IN THIS CONVERSATION HAS ENOUGH INFORMATION ABOUT EITHER ONE OF US TO SUGGEST OTHERWISE.

I like to be clear. Hope there were no shades of grey there.

I used to be a nanny years ago but always said that I would want to be a SAHM if I could as I just don't see the point in having children if you're not going to look after them yourself.

However, my view has changed and obviously we all live under different circumstances and I now appreciate that this isn't always possible. But we do still have some choices. A choice to live with fewer material things etc etc. I also appreciate that it is extremely hard for alot of people, there are a few on here who struggle day to day not only with debts but with their time. What i'm trying to say albeit badly, is you choose your career over your child, you are 'wholly and adamently dedicated to your career'. Where does your DD fit in to all of this, let alone a new baby.

btw, I'm not slating career women as a whole, I just think both men and women should strike a balance.

an what I am saying is I choose my career for my child. A point that accept you do not agree with. But, I do expect you to accept that I am here because I believe it is best for my whole family.

My dd is a very happy toddler. In fact, her old childminder calls me regularly to see if we want to come back. We are visiting her on Friday...

yeah, men and women should both strike a balance. But when they (men) don't, we pick up the slack, don't we? And then WE are criticised for it....

Oh I should just shut up now...

Fair enough, free speech and all that and I really hate to put my twopenneth in usually but this subject is one I feel quite strongly about. I hope your dd feels the same as you when she's older that you being dedicated to your career was the best thing for her.

?How would you like it all you SAHM if I said your views were little more than a self fulfilling prophecy?? Does one have to be a SAHM to think that children need their mothers? I don?t think I could give up my job and definitely couldn?t give up the wage, but I?m just saying perhaps you need more of a balance. Do you not think your defence of your position as a self-fulfilling prophecy? I?ve read of mothers here, with jobs that don?t traditionally look kindly on being second to family, working from home, working part-time, working flexible hours and they still have their jobs. It is possible. Not easy and not common but possible.
I agree with the concept of quality over quantity by the way, but even quality time is still time ? you don?t seem to have this at the moment.
1- ?If anything were ever to happen to DH?? - take out life insurance, scaling back on your job does not mean the breadline.
2- ?I'm a role model. My daughter won't grow up think men are supposed to support her. Hence, she will too will probably have a rewarding career?? funny that, my mother stayed at home and encouraged me (and my multiple siblings) to be educated. I now work fulltime in a job that I love and expect to be promoted in, but I still think family is more important.
3- ?HAppy mum= happy baby ? I agree
4- ?If my husband were a real jerk, I could leave him and take care of myself and my child. How many women stay with abusive partners and lead very unhappy live because they have no career, and hence are trapped there? And how happy do you suppose her kids are? ? ?? I don?t see the relevance of that statement
5- ?I can pay for some perks in life/child hood for DD? fine, if that?s worth more then?
?they DO care if you show up at their ballet recital. Or, if you saw them score the winning goal. They also care if you show up on visiting day at summer camp?. How are you going to fit that in with 12 hour days? Or will you take more time off in the future? What about the first step? first word? What about when they get their little fingers caught in a drawer, or bang their head ? who?s comforting them? Why is the future DD more important than the today DD?

Does anyone else think this thread is getting a bit out of hand?

Cassie came on for some specific advice and got it and then said thanks and she would take on board that advice.

Now, she seems to be a bit under siege about other issues and I think the thread should draw to a close.

sorry, cassie, this is not what you came here for. I don't doubt that you love your DD very much. I do think that your DD is missing out though and it is possible to strike a balance that could give you more time with her without giving up all you've worked for.

again, echo Eefs last post.

@ 3:27

I don't have a nanny but i am friendly with a nanny who I see quite often at classes etc. I have also been a working mum. I used to get one of those sheets from our nursery although there were times when I arrived and helped with tea, their idea of ate all her fish pie and mine were not the same!!! It is not that you are being unreasonable but perhaps you could compromise and the nanny could tell you what happened during the day over a cup of tea or something! Perhaps I am being idealistic!!

I make no judgements about your choices as I think every mum does what they have to do and pretty much every mum feels guilty about things at some point or another. However, your point:

"2- I'm a role model. My daughter won't grow up think men are supposed to support her. Hence, she will too will probably have a rewarding career."

is a tad worrying. I don't think being a SAHM sends this message to our daughters and I think or at least try to be a good role model!
I plan to return to work to work at some point and would hope that my children all grow up to have rewarding careers and lives. I hope that in the future our daughters will not have to choose between spending more time with their children and having careers.

One final thing I would like to say, recently someone said this to me in relation to being a SAHM or working mum and it really hit home:

"i doubt any mum when they are old will say I regret not working for a few years........."

Sorry if you think this is a bit harsh, I really am not trying to be horrible to working mums as I know how hard it is to juggle.

Agree twogorgeousboys - we all struggle with these issues. I see my boys about 4 hrs per day and probably some people here would say that's not good enough. I worry about it myself, but is it really helping anyone to tell them they are failing their children?

Absolutely this thread is getting out of hand, twogorgeousboys.

It is not appropriate to turn CassieD's specific question about how should be expected of an au pair/nanny into a debate about working mums vs. SAHMs.

The comment "Why have children if you're not going to look after them" (for example) is perhaps the most hurtful thing a working mother can hear, the harshest of insults, and an oversimplified cliche at best--and does not belong on a thread in which a working mother is asking for help. The thread it would belong to would be called something like, "Why I am morally superior because I do not work."

Or, on your death bed, "I wish I had spent more time at work."

I think you are kidding yourself. As the saying goes "the only present they wasnt is your presence".

CassieD, I am in a similar situation to you but I am the one who travels more than my dh. Recently I have been away quite a bit but never more than 2 nights a week.

We have a live-out nanny who we pay £350 per week net, we give her use of a car at all times, four weeks paid holiday, paid sick leave etc.

She looks after dd, does her washing and ironing and occasionally cleans the kitchen, though I never ask her to. If she does any ironing for us I pay her extra for it. She works 8 to 6pm and if she works any additional hours we pay her overtime. She is not qualified (ie NNEB) but does have a childcare diploma, first aid cert etc. She is a dream with dd.

So yes I think your nanny is doing a lot for the money. Re the form I think it's overkill personally. It's no substitute for actually talking to her, what happens if she writes something ambiguous on the form and you want more information?

I tend to talk to my nanny for 10 mins while cuddling dd when I get home, even if I'm late. I just ask her what they have done today, what dd had for lunch and if anything out of the ordinary happened she volunteers that information.

Also, if your dh is away all week, could you not just alter your dd's bedtime to a little later or get her up earlier so you can spend more time with her? One hour at the end of the day doesn't seem like much to me I'm afraid! Another way you could deal with this would be to request that you work from home some days esp when you are quieter at work - I do this and on those days I have dd until 9.30am, work through lunch and finish at 5pm (where possible) and then make up the hours on the other days if I need to. I then get to spend 5 hours a day with her on those days which is fantastic.

Anyway, best of luck with it - it isn't easy is it?

expatkat, did you read the whole post?

I'm going to add my voice to Lisalisa in defence of CassieD. She came on here to ask for advice about what she was expecting her nanny to do - not to justify her decision as a (paid) working mother. She's got some good advice - not all necessarily what she wanted to hear, but as I read it, she has taken that on board.

Nothing she has said suggests her dd is unhappy.

I also work full time and have done so since ds was 4 months old. I have never felt ANY guilt about it - I know I am as good a mother as I can be - and would be a worse one if I WAS looking after him full time. He is incredibly happy at the childminders and at 4, has just made an easy transition to half days at nursery - easy, because he is a confident, happy wee boy. I AM lucky - the childminder is the house next door, dh is a good, sharing father (and currently working from home) and I live only 17 minutes from work.

I WOULD like to drop a day at work - but NOT to spend extra time with ds, but so that I could have some time for ME - weekends and evenings (until he goes to bed at 8) are dedicated to ds, which doesn't leave much time for dh and me (as a couple) and me (as a person).

Like Lisalisa, last night I was making Gruffalo biscuits at 6.15 last night - 15 minutes after getting in (yesterday I was picked up by dh and ds, as I didn't cycle in) - while dh made the soup for our supper. We had good fun.

Who are we to judge if CassieD has/hasn't a good rleationship with her dd? That's not what she was asking about.

That's what comes of taking time to write a posting - other come and say what you were trying to say!

Good luck with your nanny CassieD - and I hope you have managed to get some positive advice from this thread - and ignore what is not relevant to you!

OMG can't beleive what I'm reading hear at all. Cassie asked a question about nannies/au pairs, and that is the question that should be answered, though certain people feel within their rights to pass judgement on her role as a mother and the happiness of her dd. How dare you. This has made me so angry. Motherhood is difficult enough without criticism from other Mums who think they do it better.

Cassie has remained very calm throughout all of this. Personally I'd have lost my rag by now.

Cassie - I only hope you can benefit from the posts that are truly offering advice and ignore the rest.

Sorry I think those who think CassieD is not spending enough time with her DD are out of line -as CassieD says, it's her choice. DH spends about that, maybe less some weeks, and as far as he is concerned it is normal - less sometimes than he would like, but normal, and not a reason for claiming he shouldn't have had DS in the first place. Plus there are the weekends, of course.

Interestingly I have an Ethiopian friend whose family could afford a nanny, housekeeper, cook, gardener etc. As she put it, her parents just did the fun stuff. Now, in her mid-30s she has a very good relationship with her parents - no signs of trauma at all, they are generally very close and keep in contact. Something to keep in mind when criticising those who choose to go out to work.

We expect a lot from parents nowadays - my parents worked two jobs (fruit shop in the day, cafe at night) and had five kids, each of which would have been lucky to get five minutes of quality time, let alone an hour a day. Should they have had no kids at all then?

I'm not saying she doesn't have a good relationship with her dd at all, just that they don't seem to have much time together.

Expatkat, I can only assume you didn't read the whole post. I'm sorry if that comment has hurt anyone, I really hate confrontation as a rule and feel embarrassed by this now but I felt compelled to give my view on this. If you read on, I did then go on to say that my view has changed and that it isn't always possible to be a SAHM etc etc etc. Sorry if i've caused offence.