Au pair / nanny duties -- am I being reasonable?

[CassieD]

WOndered if some other working mums with au pairss/nannies could lend their opinions on what is a resonable expectation. Our Au Pair / nanny is expected look after our 18 month old daughter from 7:00am until 7:00pm whilst I am at work. My husband generally leaves for work in Birmingham on Monday morning and returns on Thursday night, and works from home on Friday. So we expect a lot in terms of hours. She lives with us.

These are her duties:
Look after the toddler (including taking her to music class, tumble tots, church toddler group, swimming, etc.)
Keeping the kitchen clean, which includes doing my dishes
Laundry for the whole family, including ironing and putting away.

She does not vaccuum, dust scrub, clean the bathrooms, was the kitchen floor, etc. That, in my opinion, is the job of a cleaner (which am now about to seek -- I've never had one but I'm fed up woth my dirty house so I'm going to get one).

Last night I asked to her to fill out a sheet each day that had things like what dd eats for each meal, morning activities, afternoon activities, when she slept, ahen and what she watched on tv, and a space for other comments (like her mood and if she was in poor health, etc). Well, the nany said "no". She said she had enough to do and that didn't want to fill this form out.

I got the idea of this form from friends, who get a similar form every day when they pick their child up at nursery. I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to want to be informed each day. I am gone all day, so this is my way of knowing what dd does with her day. I need to know these things. Like, if she hates tumble tots, I need to know so I'm not forcing her to be miserable. This isn't the case with tumble tots, but if it was, I would need to know.

I also think that it is possible that the problem is partly a language barrier, and the new nanny (who has only recently started with us -- she is from Estonia) is actually objecting to having to write in enlgish, rather than just speak it.

I know that often au pairs are asked to do more of the house cleaning, but then I do realise that a toddler is a lot more work than older children.

Did anyone use an au pair / nanny when their children were toddlers? Am I being resonable? Or am I expecting too much?

am i allowed to say i am suddenly sure cassie is winding us up? NAUGHTY!
she did a good job, too...
if not, if i'm out of line, whoops, apologies

Let me get his straight, you believe that that financial worth of an employee is based in the emotional importance of the job? That's rediculous. I hate when people take the love a parent has for his/her child and use to justify an inflated price.

The market value is based in the price of comparable competitors... and she had quite a few.

I hope you are right BP. I hate to think that someone would really be pleased with themselves for such behaviour

No Cassie. I think that £2.66 an hour is too little to pay anyone to do anything. Even if they do live in.

I appreciate your post Expatkat - thanks

I understand that it's horses for courses. Everyone has had a different upbringing and on that experience does what they feel is necessary. Maybe thats where my belief comes from. My father worked away all the time, for weeks on end sometimes and we also had a shop that my mother ran so we looked after ourselves basically. They did what they wanted basically and I believe shouldn't have had us but again I stress that this is only my opinion. What fuelled my argument if you like was that Cassie believes that being wholly commited to her career is the best thing for her dd. If that what she believes and she and her dd are happy with that then fine by me but she can't expect everyone to have the same opinion. I know that's not what she was asking for but... I'll leave it there now as i've said enough.

Don't think it's a wind up. I've just done a search and she's posted a few times, nothing at all untoward.

No, the financial 'worth' of an employee should be based on the work they have to do and the responsibility they have, not the cheapest you can get away with!!! A nanny, especially one working as long as yours, has a HUGE amount to do (as all mothers should know) and a huge amount of responsibility - so should get paid a good wage!!! Just because someone is willing to work for less does NOT make it right. Please stop trying to justify using your nanny for what almost amounts to modern 'slave labour'.

final point. My last nanny post was over 15 years ago, live in, much less hours than that and take home was well over £100 with a car and plenty of time off and no housework! And no, i'm not an NNEB, was just appreciated.

I was not establishing justification for exploitation, but rather establishing that she is not a monkey. She has a wealth of experiences that make her a very interesting and respectable person. That was the point.

yes, winding away just to have a little fun at the end of my day -- a day in which I didn't really need to be made to feel guilty for having a job.

Truth be told, this thread really really made me mad. I was going to keep my mouth shut in the end, just say thanks, and walk away. But the truth is you pissed me off in a big big way.

I discovered mumsnet by accident about two weeks ago and I've been hooked ever since. But, after today, I think enough is enough. Perhaps I'd be better off if I had just concentrated on my work today instead of this bloody website.

Goodbye.

BTW - until this month, I only paid my childminder £2.50/hour for looking after ds. It has now gone up to £3 (apparently it went up a while ago, but she's only changed it for us now becasue we have cut back on ds' hours, now that he is at nursery).

I beleive that that is about the going rate for child minders - where are the complaints about that?! .

I don't think this was MN at it's best.

I think the going rate for a fully qualified NNEB or equivalent live in nanny with all expenses paid in London would be about £250 and for an aupair would be about £60. This job seems more akin to a nanny, but bearing in mind the lack of qualification, language skills etc, I don't really see £160 as slave labour. It seems a good first step and the experience will enable her to demand a higher wage in subsequent jobs. I don't think anyone is saying Cassie is forcing this lady to do this job - she is free to walk away at any time (I presume!!!). If you manage to get good reliable childcare at a price both you and your helper agree, it is not really any one else's business, is it???

As to the ORIGINAL question, you could ask her to fill in a basic nanny diary, but if her written English is poor, I would just set aside five minutes at the end of the day or five minutes at the start of the next to get some details!!! and I hope your DH starts pulling his weight a bit more.....

Good luck

Prettybird presumably your childminder has more than one child to care for, or if she doesn't she can. So could effectively triple her earnings if she wanted. Plus she doesn't have to do your washing, ironing, clean your kitchen or do your dishes.

Childminders around here charge £200 to £250 per week for full time place!

prettybird - for a start, childminders are allowed to have quite a few kids, so that ups their total pay, whereas a nanny will obviously have whatever kids the family has. And they also do not have to do laundry etc as part of their paid work, they get to do that when not looking after kids at the same time (unless they want to do it at the same time). And they don't have to work 12 hours a day (unless they really want to!).

Oh poor CassieD. I'm not in a position to comment on her original question as I've never had any help with child care, but I do think she had a bit of a hard time on here today

Errr, the nanny is qualified!

Well sorry for that, I agree it is CassieD's business how much time she spends with her child and whether she works or not. But laughing smugly at her exploitation of her nanny is not very nice.

CD - I agree - and I suppose I was being a wee bit provocative. In fact, there are three people who "work" at my childminders - the lady whose house it is, her mother and her MIL, so that they can have quite a few kids.

But also included in that is toast in the morning (when he went mornings), lunch and an afternoon snack. No nappies - so where I am, she is at the top end of the rates charged.

But she IS very good!

Prettybird, your childminder charges you £2.50/£3 because she can also look after several other children so her potential amount per hour is far higher. CassieD, nobody is trying to make you feel bad for having a job but you should feel very bad for not paying your nanny a living wage. As her hourly rate is so much lower than the national minimum, I feel even more certain that you cannot be paying tax or NI on her behalf which makes me feel even more sorry for her.

And yes of course, I'm sure that we are all paying more than we need to for our childcare but I don't think that my desire to work and have a career is morally best achieved by finding someone who will work for less than a decent wage in order to fuel my ambition.

sorry - didn't see she was qualified - But couldn't she go and get another job is she felt she was being exploited.

Market rate is whatever someone will do the job for...... doesn't make it right, but she's not being held against her will.

I read this thread aghast - a 12 hour day and you think you are being generous to your au-pair giving her one Friday a month off!!!!
I thought au-pairs' hours were supposed to be about a 5 hour day with 1 or 2 nights a week baby-sitting. When does yours have time to go to English lessons? If she is as good as you say, I would rethink your treatment of her or you stand a chance of losing her at short notice to to a family who treat her more fairly!

Indeed - but whatever any of us think about it, our gvt allow loopholes in the min wage legislation, and that does effect the 'going rate'.

And I do suspect that Cassie's 'tone' has a lot to do with her background as an American, and the work environment she inhabits - and that comment was tongue in cheek.

And once a comment or observation or argument has been made by one person, do we all have to be so aggressive? It's different when a group are debating / arguing with another group, buut a bit harsh when it's an individual.

Cassie - I don't have the same perspective as you, but I am sorry if you don't want to stay and take part in other threads.

No-one is forcing us to exploit those loopholes though are they Blu? Any of us could do the same but we don't appear to be doing so.

Just because you have a stick in your hand, it doesn't mean you have to beat your horse.

Sorry Cassie - point taken Blu. I was venting personal frustrations and the topic touches a raw nerve but not an excuse for aggression. Have to go and feed children but genuine apologies for my rant.

okay, enough is enough... don't you think?

1- she is here because she wants to be.
2- CD, why do you say she is qualified? News to me!
3- Now that I'm leaving do you think maybe you could all quit talking about me?!?!?

Oh, and yes there are definitely American influences in my work ethic. Have to admit that one.