Au pair / nanny duties -- am I being reasonable?

[CassieD]

WOndered if some other working mums with au pairss/nannies could lend their opinions on what is a resonable expectation. Our Au Pair / nanny is expected look after our 18 month old daughter from 7:00am until 7:00pm whilst I am at work. My husband generally leaves for work in Birmingham on Monday morning and returns on Thursday night, and works from home on Friday. So we expect a lot in terms of hours. She lives with us.

These are her duties:
Look after the toddler (including taking her to music class, tumble tots, church toddler group, swimming, etc.)
Keeping the kitchen clean, which includes doing my dishes
Laundry for the whole family, including ironing and putting away.

She does not vaccuum, dust scrub, clean the bathrooms, was the kitchen floor, etc. That, in my opinion, is the job of a cleaner (which am now about to seek -- I've never had one but I'm fed up woth my dirty house so I'm going to get one).

Last night I asked to her to fill out a sheet each day that had things like what dd eats for each meal, morning activities, afternoon activities, when she slept, ahen and what she watched on tv, and a space for other comments (like her mood and if she was in poor health, etc). Well, the nany said "no". She said she had enough to do and that didn't want to fill this form out.

I got the idea of this form from friends, who get a similar form every day when they pick their child up at nursery. I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to want to be informed each day. I am gone all day, so this is my way of knowing what dd does with her day. I need to know these things. Like, if she hates tumble tots, I need to know so I'm not forcing her to be miserable. This isn't the case with tumble tots, but if it was, I would need to know.

I also think that it is possible that the problem is partly a language barrier, and the new nanny (who has only recently started with us -- she is from Estonia) is actually objecting to having to write in enlgish, rather than just speak it.

I know that often au pairs are asked to do more of the house cleaning, but then I do realise that a toddler is a lot more work than older children.

Did anyone use an au pair / nanny when their children were toddlers? Am I being resonable? Or am I expecting too much?

CD Agreed, and I'm happy to pay our nanny a lot more, even though she brings her own child with her (though that does offset the full going rate). But most people do pay the 'going rate', whether that be high or low, and whether it be for clothing, food or labour inc childcare. Most MN-ers (who post, anyway) feel v strongly that childcare should be well paid. I just think that Cassie asked a question about her nanny's terms and conditions, with honest intent - i.e she wasn't 'ranting' about 'Am I being unreasonable', she was genuinely wanting to take advice - which was to put less pressure and work on the nanny.

I just don't like it when a feeding frenzy ensues.

"I hired her because she was qualified and responsible, not just because she was cheap"
AND
"her actual job description is a bit more like a nanny. She is qualified"

is where I get that from!!

Ok enough

Ah, but you're still here, Cassie!

"however,I'm glad I don't pay as much as you guys for childcare that is such a provocative comment CassieD. Do you pay NI and tax ? If you don't I hope that your aupair/nanny never gets ill. .....

Career mums is fine with me - i actually deeply regret that I didn't maintain mine, but if I had I would like to think that I had found the best person for the job (which admittedly you say you have done) but I would also want her to be happy and fulfilled in her job.She will eventually find out that she earns far less for doing far more than others in her position. That's when boredom and resentment set in.As you said

Happy mum/childcarer = happy child

CassieD I have been reading this thread am I am disgusted at some of the attitudes here. FFS Cassied was asking a specific question, which I think she welcomed the answers to. As far as wages go it is difficult, I had a nanny until 6 months ago and I paid her about £185 (net) live out. I knew that was slightly below the market rate, but I couldn't afford more. Our nanny was with us for 2.5years and was great, we keep in touch every week still, and she has gone on to better paid jobs.

Now please direct all your 'slave labour' comments to me, I obviously abused her and am an evil witch for working.

Personally I think £160 net, when she has no living expenses at all - rent, food, phone bill etc is quite fair really. It is a wage of about £11k. Yes the hours are long, and I would perhaps not include ironing (because I don't do it) but what has been agreed between them is not a matter for MN to be so up in arms. Actually if I had £160 a week left from a wage of £30k a year after all my expenses (mortgage/food) I would be happy

right, my mistake then. I meant she was qualified in the sense I believed she was able to do the job. But, she does not have any official certificate or qualification. In my view she is qualified because she raised two children herself.

My last au pair was immature, irresponsible, and more interested in meeting boys than watching dd. So the fact that the current on was in her late 40s scored highly as well.

CD said "If she were an au pair she would only be allowed to work 5 hours a day, 5 days a week. And she would not have sole responsibility for an 18 month old child."

Is that true? In that case an au pair in the UK must be more like what we call a mother's helper in the States. An au pair is basically the same as a nanny (as I said in my earlier post), but without formal qualifications (not that all nannies are qualified), and usually someone from a different country with the family for a definite length of time (one year or one summer).

As Carrie is American, maybe that is why there is some confusion about her employee's title. She sounds like a nanny to me.

CD is right, those are the rules in the UK, which are the relevant ones in this case.

Well said Crunchie.

Thanks for clearing that up for me tamum!

No problem, I'm lying low in general

well if I had an au-pair I would make him wipe my bottom too

and bring me coctails in the bath

What has happened to Mumsnet? It seems a lot of you have started attacking people who have a different point of view/lifestyle to you.

I employ a nanny from Eastern Europe, but where I live, her wage is set out by the Ministry of the Interior. I actually pay her slightly less than I should, but I pay for all her flights home (she has been home twice in 6 months and will go back again at Christmas), 6 weeks paid leave, a 13th month all her phone bills and unlimited internet access. She works from ? in the morning - not sure, she just has to pick up DD2 from Kindergarten at midday, so she can essentially do what she likes until then. Anything after 6.00 is paid overtime. She gets about GBP 800 per month net. She lives in, so that is all her money to do what she likes with. She certainly has more disposable income than I do.

To be frank, I do think her hours are a bit long but I don't think you deserve the flak you have got here. I also wouldn't ask my nanny to write down what had been done during the day - her spoken English is fine, but she is not happy writing. We chat for a few minutes when I get in about what has happened.

I work long hours too, and also got a lot of flak on what I thought was a dull thread about wanting to drop my DD off at school 10 minutes earlier. I managed to upset both teachers and some SAHMs who were shrieking like banshees. I've certainly thought twice about posting here since.

All the best - I know what it is like (as do plenty of other mums here) trying to juggle everything.

cassie, you really have got a kicking here today, undeserved in my view.

Very disappointed with this thread. Having read ALL the messages (!) I feel sorry for Cassie that she got such a rough ride today.
I know that working/sah is a subject clsoe to many mums hearts but Cassie really wasnt asking for advice on that. Think her comment about paying her nanny less was her way of showing that although alot of people didnt have many good things to say to her today, she hasnt taken offence and can still make a joke.
Sorry Cassie and hope you will stay around mumsnet.
FWIW - I'm a nanny (qualified) and fill in a diary each day - though not for mum . I fill it in about what we have done during the day, funny things the boys said/did , and mum will keep it for them for when they are adults. A lovely idea.
I give mum a quick brief before I go home on how theyve been.
I have one child and am lucky enough to take her with me, but I appreciate how hard life can be for both sahm, and working mothers.
Think Cassie should be cut a little slack.

Interesting. No-one's slagging off cassie's dh for working so hard. Cassie, I also think this kicking was undeserved.

Dont leave Cassie.......you got a rough ride today and I am shocked at some of the opinions of regular MNetters. Everyone has their own views and opinions and everyone has the right to lead their lives in their own way.

I have to agree with the last several posts.

In answer to the original question, she does sound busy and perhaps the form seemed a bit overwhelming, especially as she is still learning the language. Maybe you could pick out a few of the most important things on it to talk about on a regular basis and probably some of the others will creep into the conversation naturally anyway.

Tanzie there's a huge difference between this thread and yours.
CassieD, despite amazing provocation here, has not had a go at SAHMs. You, on the other hand cast nasturtiums (sp?) frequently about the lives of SAHMs.
I can see why Cassie wanted the info - who can blame her. Even SAHMs dribble for info about how their kids have done at playgroup/ nursery/ school etc.
Can also see why the nanny/aupair might have been reluctant - if her memory is anything like mine. Can't remember now what dd had for breakfast never mind some of the cracking comments she made throughout the day. As others have said there are also the issues of her english and perhaps, trust. If it's just the English issue perhaps you could give her a dictaphone that she could 'chat to' during the day?
Whatever we do as mothers one thing is for sure -our teenagers will tell us we did it all wrong.
But I doubt that there is one mother on this site who isn't doing the best that she can do for her children.
FGS live and let live.

Hi guys

We really don't want to risk starting this thread off again - CassieD certainly got the advice she asked for (and some she didn't)- but we agree with some of the comments on here that this thread at times got out of hand. We'd just like to draw everyone's attention to mumsnet's philospohy as stated on the Talk opening page : for those who haven't read it for a while it says:

A word about our philosophy
The thinking behind mumsnet is that by pooling knowledge and experience, parents make the job of parenting easier. Please bear in mind that issues to do with raising children can be very sensitive and that everyone has the right to make their own choices when it comes to bringing up their kids. As far as possible we would ask you to respect other people's right to choose, even if you disagree with them. After all, we all know how difficult this parenting business can be, and if there's one thing all of us could do with, it's some moral support.

We hope we can now draw a line under this discussion and move on.

Thanks
Carrie, Justine and Rachel

To answer Carrie's opening question...I think that as long as you are paying your au pair to work the specified hours, then there is not much to worry about. 12 hours a day is a long time for an au pair (5 - 6 is more standard), and I think you can only get this amount of work from someone who is an EU citizen. Au pairs are usually very happy to get extra money, and often ask you to find them outside cleaning work and babysitting.

You should not expect her to clean and look after your child at the same time, so if it is the kind of hours you suggest, cleaning could only reasonably take place during the child's naps. Au pairs don't usually have sole charge of children under 2 years, so if that is the remit, you should really be digging into your pockets for a nanny.

I've been having a few problems with my au pair over the last few days, and it's mostly down to mismatched expectations and unclear communication. I'm giving her a few days to change her attitude, then it's onto the agency for a new one. I've learnt my lesson that I need to be crystal clear on Day 1.

I think everyone has said this already but yes you are being really unreasonable. Not for asking her to fill out a sheet but to expect her to do your housework. I employ a nanny full time for ten hours a day and I made it very clear from the start that I'd never expect her to clean up after me and dh. I think it's very important that you treat your nanny/au pair with respect and realise what incredible hard work looking after a baby/toddler is. She has enough to do looking after your baby surely? I expect mine to only do housework/cleaning and ironing that relates to my baby. Off her own back, she writes me a lovely diary about what she and my dd have done at the end of the day. I like to think that she has time to do this because I don't expect her to do my dirty work as well. I would really suggest hiring a cleaner - what you describe is more in line with her job, surely?

Just wondering CassieD when your "domestic saviour" gets time to do the family laundry and ironing? If she does it while your 18mth old is asleep say for 90 mins in the afternoon, when does she get time to sit down for lunch and to relax? Not criticising as I know it is difficult sometimes to juggle the working mum act and entrust the care of your child(ren) to another person. I think it's important that she doesn't do the ironing while your 18mth old is walking about as it could be dangerous. If my HK has charge of my child(ren), I tell her to sit with them and read or watch tv, etc and not to wash the kitchen floor or do any housework except tidy away the lunch stuff of the children.

Hey I thought this thread had died, let's leave it shall we?