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Original poster

Please help me with this difficult work relationship!

157 replies

enid · 17/08/2004 13:30

Would really appreciate any advice on this situation! I've only been back at work since March and feel totally out of my depth with this thorny personnel issue...basically I work for an arts charity. There are only two paid members of staff, me and the administrator. She is an older lady (in her 60's) who has had a difficult couple of years (her husband died last year). Basically, she is a hopeless administrator (forgets things, doesn't remember how to do things she has been repeatedly shown how to do), but I have always tried to accommodate her. She ran the place for a couple of months before they hired me and its in a right mess! Anyway, she's a nice old lady and we got on pretty well. But recently she has been so defensive, rude and difficult that it is really getting me down. I literally can't ask her to do anything without her flying off the handle or sulking. Today it all came to a head when I tried to pin down her hours - she is supposed to work 15 hours a week and moans constantly about having to do more. She basically comes in when she feels like it and leaves when she feels like it. That is a pain for me as I have to work very 'set' hours (childcare!). So I want to set her hours as Monday, Tues am and Thurs am. She is absolutely adamant that she won't be 'pushed into' this arrangement and that one of the best things about this job is the 'flexibility'. I couldnt face having this discussion today as I was up all night with dd2 (raging chicken pox, poor lamb ). So I have said we will discuss it tomorrow. Help! She gets quite personal whenever we try and discuss anything (today when talking about the hours she just blurted out 'Look, Enid, do you just want me to leave so you can hire someone else?' - what do you say to that?). Also she quite likes to undermine me - recently I was late to open up the art gallery for a workshop. I apologised to the artist and explained to x the administrator what had happened. Thought it was all behind us then found a letter that x was writing to the artist saying that 'so sorry, I still didn't know what happened to Enid or why she was late' - which was a lie and why on earth would she lie like that?

Apologies, long and possibly very boring, but its really getting me down and I love my job and don't want to leave!!!

OP posts:
sis · 14/12/2004 17:04

Oh dear - it is a shame for her too as she will continue to be unhappy.

On the basis that dismissing her isn't likely to be on the cards, maybe you could write to her to say that you are glad she has decided not to resign (I know!) and say that you trust that this will be a turning point in her employment and spell out exactly what you require from her in the future so that the organisation can proceed smoothly and show your benefactors what a professional team you have etc..

serenequeen · 14/12/2004 17:07

aaawww, sis! can't enid just, you know, sack her?

Enideepmidwinter · 14/12/2004 17:17

sis I have been on the phone to our major funders (who are sick of her too) and have an appointment with their personnell advisor next tuesday. they suggested pretty much what you have suggested - she doesnt currently have a job description and so I am going to do one and send it to her with a letter like the one you describe.

Blu · 14/12/2004 17:44

Do resignantions have to be in writing? If she told you and chair, isn't that like a verbal contract? Can't you just say you will have to talk it over with the Chair and then tell her you have decided not to accpet the withdrawal of her resignantion?
Did she give a reason for withdrawing?

sis · 14/12/2004 18:59

Blu, a resignation doesn't have to be in writing but if the employer hasn't accepted it yet, it can be withdrawn. That is why I always used to tell employers not to ask for resignation in writing and if it was given orally, then the employer should write to accept it.

To complicate things further, if a resignation is given 'in the heat of the moment' emplyers are not expected to accept them without giving the employee the chance to think about it (usually, to sleep on it) and decide whether they stand by the resignation or not.

SQ, stop tempting Enid and reply to my e-mail about 16th Jan!

Blu · 14/12/2004 19:06

Sis: that advice will be tattooed on my heart!

prufRockingAroundtheXmasTree · 14/12/2004 20:35

Oh BUM
YOu see you should have done what sis said and written to accept her verbal resignation.

With a "glass half full" hat on, I can only believe that your continued profesionalism is impressing the hell out of your board and funders

Batters · 14/12/2004 21:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Enideepmidwinter · 15/12/2004 12:18

I could cry. She stood by her resignation the day after she originally gave it. I/the chairman could have written to her to accept it. Gutted.

Anyway, I am steeling myself for a lengthy fight, doing everything I can to make her job as officious as possible.

She has also asked me for three weeks off in February. (excuse me what a bloody cheek after all this shenanegans) The terms of her contract state that any holiday over two weeks has to be agreed by the board/me, and I am going to refuse it.

Enideepmidwinter · 15/12/2004 12:20

my very real fear is that she will want to be signed off sick. She has already told me that her doctor has prescribed her Ad's and that he has said she should take some time off. I have assumed she means the Christmas holidays...but if she decides to 'go sick' for longer it will cripple us, as we will have to continue paying her but we have no money to pay someone else to do her job

Blu · 15/12/2004 12:26

Re-structure. make her redundant asap?

Enideepmidwinter · 15/12/2004 12:36

Yes. I was thinking this morning of offering her voluntary redundancy - paying her off. Or, drafting her job description and changing her job title - she currently has neither up to date contract OR job description. Or just making her redundant and readvertising her job with a different title and a slightly different emphasis.

serenequeen · 15/12/2004 12:49

sis, i replied 2 days ago, don't you have it yet?

Batters · 15/12/2004 12:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MariNativityPlay · 15/12/2004 12:54

(off-topic: sq, I don't think sis' mail provider and ours are on very cordial terms. Sis' mails are taking three days to reach me and vice versa I think)
Enid, this latest development is dire. You really don't deserve this. Hope you can get board backing for a voluntary redundancy for her.

FestiveFrex · 15/12/2004 12:54

Does her contract entitle her to full pay when off sick? If not, then she'll just get SSP, which you get back from the govt.

Could you not write to her saying that you and the chairman accepted her resignation on the following day when you asked her to confirm and that you have already offered her job to someone else?? Then find someone bl**dy quickly!

Enideepmidwinter · 15/12/2004 13:00

Frex, she doesn't actually have an up-to-date contract, her last one expired a year ago I have discovered. So I am hoping when we draft her new one we can add the bit about sick pay into it??

FestiveFrex · 15/12/2004 13:01

I would have thought that, if you haven't given her another contract after the last one expired, unless you've made it clear that certain terms have changed, her old terms and conditions would be deemed to apply. What was in her old contract about sick pay?

sobernoel · 15/12/2004 13:05

Enid, I have been out of the loop for a few years now, but when I was in your position an organisation with fewer than 10 employees was exempt from some aspects of employment legislation precisely to protect it from financial difficulty in the face of long term sickness. Has that changed? I realise that much of the recent changes in the law have been to protect individuals and that's all well and good, but a small charitable company which simply cannot function if it has to pay sick pay and sickness cover should still be exempt IMO. Worth checking.

I have loads of sympathy for you, I've been there and been taken to a tribunal by a total sh*thead of a guy who was taking the company for a ride. I know how much this can overtake your life, try not to let it if you can - hugs,Sx.

Shimmy21 · 15/12/2004 13:11

Hi Enid -I've been having a lurk for a while dipping in to your saga. Poor you - the whole thing sounds awful. . Not to depress you any further but I just wanted to give you a word of warning. I just wondered if you had considered the implications of the Disability Discrimination Act. (I'm supposed to be doing some work on it as I write to you!). Putting it simply, as your lovely colleague is on ADs, there is a chance that she could qualify as disabled under the terms of the act. For you, the implications are that you must make any reasonable adjustment to her conditions of work or whatever to accommodate her disablilty (e.g. working hours, holidays or whatever). If she feels compelled to resign because she can't cope and you are shown not to have tried to make these resonable adjustments she could have all sorts of grounds for messy horrible tribunals against her employer(even if she does not identify herself as disabled to you at the time.)Whether she does count as disabled will depend on how long and how seriously she is depressed (which of course will be based on medical opinion.) In any future court case (God forbid)her employer might be expected to have investigated this and ways of helping her. I know this is muddying your waters even more and it probably doesn't apply to her case but I'd hate to see your delightful colleague extracting revenge through the courts.

Blu · 15/12/2004 13:13

Probably need to tread reasonably carefully. Do you think she withdrew her resignation because she twigged that if you wanted to get rid of her she would do better out of a redundancy settlement?
I have undertaken a re-structuring aka Night of Long Knives, but can't remember all the things we had to guard against - the extent to which you can adjust someone's contract (and custom and practice does have some weight), being v careful about re-advertising a post which is even similiar until finances have changed etc etc.

Do you know why she did withdraw resignantion?

Enideepmidwinter · 15/12/2004 13:14

I can't believe it.

My chairman has just rung me to say that he has had X at his house for the last hour and a half and that he has her resignation in writing and that he has accepted it. He is personally a friend of hers so feels a bit crap about it, so I had to modify my reaction on the phone but:

GREAT BIG "YAYYYYYYYY!" ICON!!!!!!!!

Shimmy21 · 15/12/2004 13:15

Another happy MN ending!!

Blu · 15/12/2004 13:16

FANTASTIC!
Bloody Hell, what an attention-seeking bat she must be!
Hurray, have party to celebrate!

spacedonkey · 15/12/2004 13:16

air punch !!!!