Please help me with this difficult work relationship!

[enid]

Would really appreciate any advice on this situation! I've only been back at work since March and feel totally out of my depth with this thorny personnel issue...basically I work for an arts charity. There are only two paid members of staff, me and the administrator. She is an older lady (in her 60's) who has had a difficult couple of years (her husband died last year). Basically, she is a hopeless administrator (forgets things, doesn't remember how to do things she has been repeatedly shown how to do), but I have always tried to accommodate her. She ran the place for a couple of months before they hired me and its in a right mess! Anyway, she's a nice old lady and we got on pretty well. But recently she has been so defensive, rude and difficult that it is really getting me down. I literally can't ask her to do anything without her flying off the handle or sulking. Today it all came to a head when I tried to pin down her hours - she is supposed to work 15 hours a week and moans constantly about having to do more. She basically comes in when she feels like it and leaves when she feels like it. That is a pain for me as I have to work very 'set' hours (childcare!). So I want to set her hours as Monday, Tues am and Thurs am. She is absolutely adamant that she won't be 'pushed into' this arrangement and that one of the best things about this job is the 'flexibility'. I couldnt face having this discussion today as I was up all night with dd2 (raging chicken pox, poor lamb ). So I have said we will discuss it tomorrow. Help! She gets quite personal whenever we try and discuss anything (today when talking about the hours she just blurted out 'Look, Enid, do you just want me to leave so you can hire someone else?' - what do you say to that?). Also she quite likes to undermine me - recently I was late to open up the art gallery for a workshop. I apologised to the artist and explained to x the administrator what had happened. Thought it was all behind us then found a letter that x was writing to the artist saying that 'so sorry, I still didn't know what happened to Enid or why she was late' - which was a lie and why on earth would she lie like that?

Apologies, long and possibly very boring, but its really getting me down and I love my job and don't want to leave!!!

I think you have very good advise here Enid, don't panic, just stick to the facts and let your boss know about why you need this little meeting with her before hand so it doesn't backfire on you in case she cmplains to him about you. You will be fine.

I think if her contract says 'hours agreed with the Director' then that is what you can do. The hours she 'typically' works are within your agreement, and if you want to agree different hours, you can do that too! It doesn't say that the hours have to be agreed once and set in stone for ever!
She sounds quite impossible, and unfortunately I suspect you are going to have to be hardcore with her.
The field is infested with this kind of Derek Guyler behaviour, it drives me mad!

By the way, I don't think that any flexi time contract is totally flexible, you need to do your duties and have some goals, I would reduce the time to be there the days you need her and be flexible about the other one.

Enid, I've come back to this thread - probably because, like Blu, I feel those old familiar shudders. I don't know what your rights, and hers, are. I do think that probably you can't renegotiate her contract but you can/should lay down some basic rules which she can't contravene. Like this blasted work hours thing. How firm can you be about 'look, I expect you to be in for these hours'?

If you're not physically up to the meeting, I'd postpone it. It's a horrible situation. Vile.

(God, I hated management...)

You can try and renegotiate her contract but she may not agree to it.

I think if you are talking about the days she normally does then I don't think you have much of a problem. I think I would sya something like, 'as you know I always try to be flexible, but it is important that the office is manned at all times, therefore if you want to change your normal working days then you must swap it with the hours you work on Tuesdays. If she has a pressing need to take time off on a MOnday or a Thursday (hospital appointments, holidays etc) then ask her to give you more notice so that you can rearrange things to be in the office on those days.
I think the real issue might be that between you there is actually very little flexibility in the arrangements - one or other of you has to be in the office at any one time (except for Tuesdays when you are both there) can you try and get someone else in to help cover for you both? What do you do at holiday times? Can you agree with your boss to use a temp when she is unable to be in teh office on Mons and Thursdays??

Enid, I think Soapbox's advice is spot on. You could try and involve her by saying, this is what needs to be done (from the organisation's point of view i.e. office needs to be manned five days a week). This is how it is supposed to work - (ie spell out the days you are in the office and the days she is in the office and the benefits of the overlap day). The problem you have (ie the office is often over- and under-manned because she frequently changes her hours/days in the office. The solution that you have come up with and then ask her if she has any problems with it or can come up with a better solution - agree to give her time to consider things and fix a meeting a week or fortnight later - In the meantime, confirm the main points of the first meeting in writing.

At the second meeting if she comes up with any problems with your suggestion reiterate the organisation's requirements and say ask how it can be achieved if she does not agree to what you are proposing. If she makes alternative suggestions, which are impractical, spell the problems out to her and ask her how they may be resolved - if the can't you are back to your original solution. If she suggestd something that could work then you are made!

I hope the above is helpful - I know it is pretty basic but sometimes it helps to break things down (call my fly lady of employment!).

Hooray for sis. Was hoping she'd spot this.

I'm blushing Tinker! (hate the blush icon though!)

actually it all gets more complicated as from September I am changing my hours so that I work four days a week until 2pm (to fit in with school hours). This was agreed when I initially took the job. So then there won't be so much of an issue about her having to be there on certain days - just the one that I don't work. But I STILL want to know the days that she is coming in and I still don't understand whether or not I can insist upon her coming in on regular days.

could I say that she can be flexible as long as she puts her hours on a wall calendar? And that we will sit down on a Tuesday, go through what needs to be done and when she might come in and do it? Sounds like such a laborious way to go about things...why can't she just work regular bloody days!!

The problem is that she totally resents me - I suspected this soon after I started and now I realise it is true. She will resist anything I ask of her. She has not said one good word about the arts programme brochure that I redesigned (which now looks brilliant, I am really proud of it and so our our council of management), the only thing she has said about it is that I should read 'Eats Shoots and Leaves' as she has had to correct my punctuation on occasion. She belittles my acheivements whenever she can. She will make personal commments about my appearance whenever she feels like it - then asks me whether I mind her saying I need more lipstick or whatever. She is constantly making references to the fact that I am not making the most of my children while they are tiny.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRr

she sounds like an absolute gem... how have you kept your temper..... i think i'd have done some serious damage by now . you are amazing for keeping your temper. sorry no suggestions- all i can think of is that you keep detailed notes... are these personal comments a case of bullying???? even though you're her superior i'm sure it is.... enid- you have my total sympathy

Enid, rest assured we ALL hate her on your behalf.

God enid, it sounds hideous. Lots of great advice here. I think I'd deal with the personal comments by saying things like "I really would appreciate your not making remarks about my childcare/lipstick, thank you. I will ask if I'd like some advice but I'm managing fine." and take a deep breath and walk away, pick up the phone, whatever. I think you need to challenge her because there's a power struggle here and if you let her talk to you like that she's winning! I wouldn't DREAM of talking to my boss like that and neither, I'm sure, would you. I don't have experience in the sector but I do have experience of managing large teams and I've come across people who don't like change. It's hard, I know. I don't think she could possibly object to a weekly meeting where you discussed what had to be achieved in the coming week and who was going to do it and be there to do it. So I think I'd do it if you can and minute it. I think if she criticises and it's something you have authority over and she has no say in it's fine to say 'well, I've made a decision and we're going to do it like xtx. for xxx reasons." (if you want to give reasons, you don't have to) but I think you should just try to be very firm, very professional, very polite and ride it out. Do your job and ask her, clearly and professionally to do hers. But I do know it's easy for me to say that. Good luck.

And I'd challenge her, politely, but loud and clear on the lying about you thing. If you have evidence, present it and tell her that you won't tolerate her damaging your professional reputation, because that's what the letter would have done I assume?

I've always avoided management or teaching jobs like the plague - not that I've had many offers in these areas anyway, enid it sounds hell and I wish I could offer advice based on experience but I cannot.

I have worked with stick in the muds however and what seems to work the best is if the boss freezes them out. Do what sis advises, but if no change, then work round them. Don't spend huge amounts of time and energy trying to further change or challenge them.

I assume money must be tight-ish if you work for a charity, but is it possible your organisation could employ another person? Can you present a case for this? I assume changes are afoot as a result of the recent publicity your place has received....can you find a way of using this to push for more admin support.... you could then work more closely with the new person, form a professional tight knit, mutually supportive team. Make sure the board recognise this new partnership. Give the original part timer stuff to keep her busy, you will have more leaway to let her do as she wants re her hours etc if you have more support elsewhere, then just wait it out till she retires.

Is that too pie in the sky? anyway, you've had brilliant advice here from other posters so hope you feel a bit better. Agree that you must delay any big showdown with the aged part timer until you feel strong enough to cope with it.

I think you needtospend a few minutes thinking about what you want to achieve and why. Maybe you will not need her in the office to ensure there is proper cover but you are responsible for the office and need to know who will be in and when - after all, it does no favours to anyone when someone asks for her and you have to reply that she is not available and you do not know when she will be in the office! As her manager, you have a right to know how she is meeting her contractual hours and what she is doing.

Also, when she asks if you mind her making put-down comments, just say yes you do. Don't explain or expand and if she makes another comment, look at her straight in the eye and tell her that you have already told her not to make such rude/personal/offensive comments and then carry on - do not expand or explain, be very clear most important of all don't feel bad/ guilty and start with an apology (eg "sorry, but as I explained before..." You have nothing to be sorry about!).

Right, I am not going in today as reading all these supportive messages has made me cry!

Am a total wreck as dd2 was up from 1.30am until 5 - waking literally every 20 mins in total distress about her chicken pox, I ended up giving her 2 baths as it was the only thing (and that includes Medised ) that would relax her.

Don't think the time is right to confront x but will do it when I am feeling 'on top of my game'. So much good advice here I am more grateful to mumsnet than I have ever been!

I have to ring her in a minute to tell her that I am not coming in today - she'll love that .

good decision not to go in today, enid. Hope you can catch up on some sleep and hope your poor dd2 feels better soon.

Can you not think of a really boring job for her to do today in your absence Enid...
Hope dd2 is better soon

Good decision, Enid. (I've had a night with a teething child and couldn't confront ANYONE at the moment.) Take care, both of you
xxxxxxxxx

Enid, I'm so sorry we made you cry! I hope your daughter feels better soon and you feel able to sort this situation out soon. Maybe try thinking about it as being assertive rather than 'confrontational' as the latter has lots of negative connotations and none of them apply to you.

enid, you've got soem great practical advice heer - on the emotional level, please just try to remember that the only reason she criticises you is because she feels threatened by you - because you are doing such a good , professional job, that she is realising how crap she is and hitting out at you. And 3 years osn't that long......

Well done on the brochure - and excellent that the Management Committee are impressed. That's tacticly v important.
yes, of course she is terrified of your talent, power and new ways of doing things, and of losing her special relationship with the Chair.

I took a job as a Director of an organisation that had recently been a collective. On my first day, one member of staff said 'I really think that it would be helpful for you to know that not one member of staff wants a Director. It's not personal, but we don't want you here. As a feminist, I'm just letting you know the truth, in the spirit of sisterhood'.

Some of those who worked WITH me, and I with them, went on to form a succesful team that doubled the turnover, and grant by 100%. Those that didn't got re-structured out!

Hope your dd's better soon enid and I think you did the right thing not going in today. Wait til you're up to it. Sis is totally right about the terminology IMO.

lol Blu! I've worked in a couple of organisations like that.

Gosh- she sounds like a complete nightmare, enid. Great advice on here, especially from sis, blu, mi and pru- I do think you must constantly remind yourself that she is feeling desperately insecure and threatened by your general fabness and competence.

Essentially, I think your own star chart idea is spot on in many ways though - I reckon you need to choose a parenting/management approach and stick to it so that Ms Stropsville Arizona gets some clear and consistent messages about what is acceptable behaviour at work. You could go for a Gina Ford like method- very structured and breezily confident that you know what's best for her and that she'll be contented when she falls in with your strict but fair regime. Or maybe try the Little Angels tactic of making a real effort to notice and comment on anything she's doing right, no matter how small, while withdrawing your attention immediately if she goes into rude cow mode. Or would it work to do a Frank Ferudi and simply let her do her own thing? I think you just need a few strategies to make yourself feel that the woman is manageable, against all the evidence she has given you to the contrary. When I find work people difficult- and boy some of them can be prize prats on occasion- and feel stuck I try and ask myself what I would be doing differently if the person was not a colleague but someone else with potential for stroppiness whom I liked and felt pretty skilled in dealing with- my kids or certain of our service users are usually the people who spring to mind. This helps me think about whether I might need to explain more, stop explaining, be more supportive, be firmer, praise more, whatever without being distracted by the fact that I'm pissed off by some twat treating me unfairly, which is apt to be quite upsetting and paralysing, let's face it. I hope this doesn't sound too silly. It is a method I genuinely use because it reminds me what my strengths are in difficult situations.

Anyway, I hope you find a way to tame this dragon, my friend. And that your dd2 feels loads better very soon.