So working mums (part time or otherwise), how do you cope with the guilt?

[charmkin]

?

Ebenezer - I quite agree that a mother who is depressed bored etc is likely to be a less good mother than one who is happy.

But there IS absolutely masses of evidence that a contented mother is a better primary carer than any other carer.

The big question is how, in the post-industrial world, do we reconcile being at home with one's children with being contented with being economically viable.

"But there IS absolutely masses of evidence that a contented mother is a better primary carer than any other carer."

I dare say you are wrong. But just for fun, present your "ecidence".

or rather "evidence". sorry

eleusis - I am not going to get into this lengthy, pointless debate that already has been done to death. There is plenty of evidence out there in books, articles, reviews, wisdom passed from generation to generation that contented, well supported mothers make better primary carers for babies and small children than nannies, creches, grandmothers, fathers, siblings etc and you know it.

But that fact does not in any way invalidate mothers' requirement for financial security, intellectual stimulation, participation in the wider world, company etc which careers can provide.

The difficulty is in the reconciliation.

No evidence that is correct that backst at up but it makes people like Anna happier to think there is. So in fact these mothers doing it for that reason rather than they prefer it and can afford not working, are sacrificing their future economic position completely needlessly and the sooner working mothers help them realise how wrong they are and how well our children do, if not do even better when mothers work, the better.

Stay home for yourself and because you love it and have a man or savings that support that (but don't do it on my taxes) but don't do it because it's better for the children because it isn't.

Xenia - I don't advocate self-sacrifice (read what I wrote).

I love you, Xenia.

Anna, if you don't want to get into this debate then may I suggest you don't make infammatory statements on threads which are started specifically for working mothers?

Show me the evidence that suggests men are not as capable of being parents as women are. That is unbelievable sexism in my book. Not to mention untrue.

eleusis - I didn't make any such statement and the fact that you and Xenia get so excited about your extreme position suggests you've got a few issues to deal with in my book.

eleusis - it's a boring thing to have to state yet again, but men can't be pregnant, give birth or breastfeed and they don't have the same hormonal balance that women do (unless they intervene in the birth process, like having a c-section) that makes them such good caregivers for babies.

Oh dear. CAN WE PLEASE NOT KILL EACH OTHER?!!!!!!

One thing is for sure, whatever blokes are doing, is not struggling either internally (in most cases) or amongst themselves over their decisions. Here's the view from Tricia: We've got to support one another ladies!!!!!!

I actually didn't think Anna's comments were so inflammatory. Without both sides there isn't much of a debate anyway.

But everyone needs to calm down because women barking at each other as the men sit in the pub (or at the office or wherever) relaxed with their world is not good news.

genidef - I absolutely agree. Men don't have our dilemmas to deal with. But I do think that that is women's fault, in part, for not requiring men to take part in the debate surrounding responsibility for family life after children. Women shoulder all the burden too easily in my opinion.

Mine is actually excellent. I have to say I don't know any working mums with really shocking husbands/partners. I don't know if that's unusual or not! But the unbelievable thing is husbands to stay at home mums who believe that because of their financial contribution they are free to do NOTHING whatsoever at home or connected to the children.This is the situation of a friend of mine who also has a serious illness. Anyway, it's also great when single friends (funnily enough, women) back up these men. "SHE wanted the babies!" No sense of: that makes her job 24/7 or anything.

genidef - I think that's the critical issue - 24/7. A baby is a 24/7 responsibility, and although personally I find it much less strenuous to be with my baby than I do to work full time (but I was fairly masochistic about work in the past and won't be again), I do want some time off from the 24/7.

genidef - I DO know quite a few mothers with really shocking husbands - both WOHMs and SAHMs. But I live in France, where feminism is still in its early days... Women are expected to shoulder 100% of domestic duties (albeit with help from a slave) and to have full-time jobs. Worst of all possible worlds if you ask me.

And I guess have great figures, well coiffed hair, 'french' manicures, to top it all off.

"But there IS absolutely masses of evidence that a contented mother is a better primary carer than any other carer." is an inflammatory statement, especially in the context of a thread for working mums.

You have now established that men are less qualified to be pregnant, give birth, and breast feed. This does not make them worse carers.

And, I'm not en extremist. I just believe in sexual equality.

I think guilt can often be a habit of mind. Some people are more self analysing, more self critical than others. And some people believe sociological surveys and others don't even bother to read them. I'm sure there are stay at home mothers who feel guilty about things. If they're that way inclined. I'm not talking here about wicked behaviour just the normal run of the mill, less than perfect actions.

www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?

Is it me or is this feature just bonkers? Can you imagine a feature - can you be a perfect husband and father?

NKF I would be interested to read this but can't get the link to work for some reason.

I can't make it work as a link. It's on daily mail online. Scroll down the home page. Unless you know how to do a link.

what's the actual title?

It's called "sorry but no woman can be a perfect wife and mother". Like we have to apologise for that.

Okay, i agree very much with one of the responses: "I think the key to all of this is actually not to marry a man who has the same level of maturity as the children you are having." Friend with useless husband married someone much younger.

Sometimes though it's the having children that exposes their immaturity. Women seem to take to the whole upheaval of parenthood quicker. Huge generalisation I know.

well I just wrote a long and insightful post (unusual for me) then deleted it as I thought all I need ot say is...

I feel no guilt for woking.