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Original poster

Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

646 replies

OhBollocksFuck · 26/10/2016 11:14

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

OP posts:
BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 21:00

Positive action and promotion is what we learned.
We were also taught that common sense is important and that you the individual decides what happens to you and that nobody has the right to assume.

Trainer used this "jane in work is greeted by Bob everyday with a peck on the cheek. Jane appears happy with this and has not complained or seemed upset. Rick sees this everyday and decides he too will greet Jane with a kiss. Jane complains to the boss the first time Rick does this. Rick says Bob does it so why cant I."

Whats wrong isnt Bob kisding Jane it is Rick assuming he can too.

People calling black Steve black Steve is fine if he is happy
That does not give the go ahead for people to attach race related nicknames to all workers. That is common sense.

Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 21:07

But Vixx you CAN be offended, but being offended is not actionable in law - unless what is being done/said is deliberate harassment.

scaryclown · 26/10/2016 21:11

Mention Black Francis from the Pixies and say 'thats how we were introduced, I thought it was gothy, not racist' then say 'if it offends anybody I'll stop of course.

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 21:14

Flouncing, those calendars are hugely inappropriate for the workplace whether there's a woman in the office or not. To allow them or to display them shows a lack of professional maturity. Same goes for the calendars targeting women which depict men in their underwear. They're tacky and unprofessional.

venusinscorpio · 26/10/2016 21:19

The girly calendar is covered by sexual harassment under the equality act, not sex discrimination. And yes it is harassment to create an atmosphere where women or men are made to feel uncomfortable due to the protected characteristic of sex.

venusinscorpio · 26/10/2016 21:22

I meant to put quote marks round "girly calendar"!

venusinscorpio · 26/10/2016 21:26

So would mentioning women's breasts, whether or not the women concerned were ok with it. It is against the law to create a hostile environment for women.

SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 21:28

Southallgirl I go out in brick lane a lot but also old street and really I don't get hassle. Sorry you do. I run the gauntlet of the Indian restaurant men as you do!

I think this may have got worse since 2000 since I last worked there but I've never been told not to go out there, as a white woman!

venusinscorpio · 26/10/2016 21:28

Any woman could make a complaint that she felt harassed by it, I'm not sure about whether a man could. I was under the impression they could but that might be wrong.

DesolateWaist · 26/10/2016 21:29

If no woman heard the obnoxious comments then only another man has been offended. He can complain, and the manager can ask the other men to watch their behaviour, but it is not actionable unless it is said in earshot of a woman.

What?
Surely that can't be right.
So someone can sit in a workplace and say in front of everyone and make derogatory remarks against a race/religion/culture and because no one of that race etc is there to hear it then it's fine?

RitchyBestingFace · 26/10/2016 21:29

It doesn't matter whether the intent was racist or not - it is unprofessional and poor practice. It's not enough to not discriminate as an employer - you have to be SEEN not to be discriminating.

If Steve decided he had a case of racial discrimination on other grounds, he could call the nickname as evidence that the company had a culture of racial discrimination. If another black employee found it offensive they could have a case as well.

I currently work in an office with a hilarious number of Mikes and Annes (*not their real names) - also a 'bantery' type environment - no-one would EVER call them anything other than Mike B, Anne C, Anne Cleves or Mike from Finance. There are some real dinosaurs there as well - they would be appalled at using any personal characteristic - never mind a legally protected one - as a descriptor.

FlouncingIntoAutumn · 26/10/2016 21:30

I don't have a love of girly calenders, or the male equivalent, my frustration was it took a women joining the entirely male environment to instigate change. It highlighted my joining and therefore was in itself discriminatory. As others have posted common sense should dictate that professional environments are just that professional.

venusinscorpio · 26/10/2016 21:30

So bubble, the reason it's company policy generally to not allow those calendars is because the company could be sued. They have to show that they have taken steps to prevent sexual harassment or they are liable.

Floods123 · 26/10/2016 21:38

This is where race laws are completely stupid. One Steve is Black the other is White. That's how that look. If this was used as a discriminatory way in as much as one was to be maybe paid or treated differently at work that would be racial discrimination. If either was offended it would be racist. Neither us true so no problem!

Kokosjumping · 26/10/2016 21:47

Some parts of E1 are no go areas for white women?! What a load of utter bollocks. I grew up there and I still go out there lots in the evening Confused

Yes you can get street harassed there but welcome to our shit misogynist society - I've had that all over the uk.

woodhill · 26/10/2016 21:54

What I don't like about this is the way the woman complained about OP in particular.

Could she not have kept it vague saying she was unhappy that she had heard a certain staff member being called B.... Steve by members of staff and it made her feel uncomfortable.

I think it was sneaky.

I don't think it's a good idea to refer to the Steves' in this way anyway.

RitchyBestingFace · 26/10/2016 21:54

Jeez this thread is depressing.

Is it that difficult to work 8 hours a day without referring to your colleague's race, gender, sexuality or disability?

SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 22:05

Agreed koko. The op said White women (no I've been fine!) and then she said she herself as a British Asian had got abuse. Maybe that's true but never seen it.

ilovesooty · 26/10/2016 22:06

I think depressing is pretty close to the mark.

Blu · 26/10/2016 22:09

Kokosjumping; yeah, the same post has a load of bollocks about Brixton / Stockwell Park Estate. In terms of no-go for white people, anyway. And exaggeration . A point gone wrong , I think.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 22:09

This is where race laws are completely stupid

The law is quite clear.
It is peoples interpritation of it that is the problem.
People are so scared of being called racist that they fear stating obvious fact such as that person is black/white.
It is the intent that is looked at when it comes to the legal term of racism.
To state somebody is a black person. Fine. Legal. Not racist.
To state somebody is a murderer because they are black. Not fine. Not legal. Racist.

RitchyBestingFace · 26/10/2016 22:12

People are so scared of being called racist that they fear stating obvious fact such as that person is black/white.

But that's not the problem here right? The OP has continually stated that the person is black, again and again and again.

How many times in the workplace have you needed to refer to the race of a person? I can't think of maybe ONCE in 25 years of working in very diverse environments.

RitchyBestingFace · 26/10/2016 22:13

can think - that should say

19Hannah · 26/10/2016 22:23

I don't see anything wrong with it at all! It's descriptive.. I've worked in places with 'Russian twat' and 'northern c...' 'brummy bast...' nobody was offended.. joys of working with men eh.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 22:39

But that's not the problem here right? The OP has continually stated that the person is black, again and again and again.

Not just the OP.
Plus the reason black and white is still attached to both Steves is because both Steves still work there.

"Can you give this to Steve please."
"Which Steve?" Because both Steves work in the same office.
"Black Steve" because one is white one is black.

^^This is not racist it is a discriptor just like.

"Can you give this to Dave"
Both Daves are black.
"Which Dave?"
"Tall Dave"

You are using a feature or characteristic to easily identify the correct person not to discriminate.

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