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Original poster

Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

646 replies

OhBollocksFuck · 26/10/2016 11:14

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

OP posts:
SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 20:30

Southall would just like to state I've been out all over east London (E1 included) and there was one occasion in brick lane where a polish friend who lived there felt nervous because of a group of men nearby in the street.

But I've never been felt up or felt unsafe there! If I was felt up I'd scream, report it etc.

I've also been going there eg limehouse, shadwell etc before it got trendy and never felt unsafe ever (been going there since I was 21 (45 now))

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 20:30

Actually I'd find that pretty intrusive and hostile especially if it is male workers saying it. Even if I wasn't one of the Lindas. Would it be OK for the men in the workshop to have a girly calendar and say "cor, look at the breasts on that" because the girl in the calendar doesn't work with you?

Again this is work place policy not law.
Girly posters are not illegal. To have one in the work place is not breaking the law. It is up to the company to have a policy that bans them.

Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 20:32

drspouse - If no woman heard the obnoxious comments then only another man has been offended. He can complain, and the manager can ask the other men to watch their behaviour, but it is not actionable unless it is said in earshot of a woman.

Vixxfacee · 26/10/2016 20:33

Sorry if I started at a new work place and people were being called black Steve or white Steve I would find that unprofessional.
If I heard a white person calling him black Steve and him grinning and being happy with it then I would see him as some kind of uncle Tom.

Propertyquandry · 26/10/2016 20:33

Ritchy, I think drawing attention to your breasts would be offensive and hugely inappropriate. That would be more like this case being about Big Dick Steve and Tiny Dick Steve. Instead, this is more akin to your scenario being female Alex and male Alex; nothing more than a statement of fact.

But both Male Steve and Black Steve is inappropriate despite neither descriptions being offensive in themselves.

SuperFlyHigh · 26/10/2016 20:34

Also if you and your SIL have been called names (presumably due to your western dress) then they may wonder why you are out in the evening and also why you're in western dress. That is 'their' problem not yours!

FlouncingIntoAutumn · 26/10/2016 20:35

One of the bigger bits of discrimination/ uncomfortable highlighting of being a minority, I came across in my career was starting a new job in a slightly hostile environment because a memo had been sent around theday before that as a women was joining the department (70 strong engineering department) all Pirelli calendars were to be taken down.

I hadn't requested this and have seen similar in every workplace id been in. I'd been moving into a semi office environment from a far tougher construction /sewage treatment background.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 20:36

No, they can use it because they are black. Like you can insult your mother but woe betide your DP if he does.

Nope they cant. Because to tell one race it is ok to use a word but tell another it is wrong to use the same word is against equality and diversity. Can you not see that?
To use the term nigger in anyway is offensive to me but i accept that used in rap by white and black rappers is ok to some black people so who am I (a white person who is not directly affected by it) to start telling black people what words they can or canmot accept.

DoloresVanCartier · 26/10/2016 20:39

I'm totally confused Confused
So if the conversation went like this...

Me - send it to Steve

Her - which one?

Me - Steve L

Her - which one is that?

Me - the black one

Am I being racist?

I honestly wouldn't have thought I was being racist but from some of the early replies to OP it would appear I am Blush

Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 20:39

SuperFly - It was reported to the police, who informed us that women being in Brick Lane & surrounding area in the evening is a very bad idea. There are men whose misogynist culture causes them to believe that women who go out in the evening are tarts, and there is a preponderance of them in some parts of East London.

LobsterQuadrille · 26/10/2016 20:41

I used to work in another country which was about 70:30 back to white, where in one company I was known in the workplace as the "little white girl". It seemed a sensible way to differentiate at the time and I'm pretty sure that nobody would have thought it racist, least of all me. However I appreciate the views of the majority on here. Good luck with it all, OP.

Vixxfacee · 26/10/2016 20:41

Dolores I think it's more that in the office that's their names black Steve and white Steve.

FlouncingIntoAutumn · 26/10/2016 20:41

Delores i don't think thats racist either.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 20:42

Sorry if I started at a new work place and people were being called black Steve or white Steve I would find that unprofessional.
If I heard a white person calling him black Steve and him grinning and being happy with it then I would see him as some kind of uncle Tom.

Who are you to make that assumption Shock
So you think because Steve is black he is unable to stand up for himself in 6 years. You think because he is black he will just accept racisim.

Fuck me that is treating Steve as a minority and unequal not to mention a major stereotype!! Why sould you only think that about black Steve and not white Steve?

DoloresVanCartier · 26/10/2016 20:42

We also had a male and female at work who both had exactly the same name, say it's Andy smith/Andie Smith, they got called Andy balls and Andy no balls ShockBlush I never thought anything of it when I heard.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 20:44

No Del you ate not.

Vixxfacee · 26/10/2016 20:44

No bubble I wouldn't think because he is black he is accepting racism. I think that him accepting being called black Steve makes him appear to ME a certain way.

Same way if white Steve allowed black or asian people to call him white Steve in an office.

That kind of thing has never happened in any places I've worked. Luckily.

DoloresVanCartier · 26/10/2016 20:46

Vixx, but is there any difference between what I have put as a possible scenario and people saying "Steve, the black steve" in conversation, which in all scenarios is likely to be shortened to black steve.
I know two Joseph's (both pronounced with a hard J), they are referred to as Joe and Polish Joe. Joe from Poland phones and says "his its polish Joe, so you know who you are talking to".

Southallgirl · 26/10/2016 20:46

If I heard a white person calling him black Steve and him grinning and being happy with it then I would see him as some kind of uncle Tom

It is YOU who is not seeing black Steve as a person, only as a colour. That's dreadful.

BubbleGumBubble · 26/10/2016 20:48

No bubble I wouldn't think because he is black he is accepting racism. I think that him accepting being called black Steve makes him appear to ME a certain way.

So in what way is that? What way does this black man appear to you?
Why are you stereotyping him?
Why are you deciding what Steve shod be called. Ismt that Steves choice?

FlouncingIntoAutumn · 26/10/2016 20:50

Bublegum have you read up on 'positive action' as part of your recent training?

I interpret it as taking steps to ensure that we don't allow entrenchment of potentially discriminatory practices regardless of whether they directly effect ourselves.

Using race as a discriminatory factor obviously makes lots of people on this thread uncomfortable. Who's to say another employee or a customer may also be made uncomfortable/ discriminated against if it continues as culturally acceptable in the workplace. Its just not necessary.

Blu · 26/10/2016 20:51

This is not about whether anyone in this scenario happens to be personally offended - whether Steve is offended, whether the new employee is offended either on her own behalf or on his, or anyone else's.

It is an employee saying, quite rightly within Equalities legislation (and all the guidelines. toolkits and what have you that go along with it, all helpfully available on the EHRC website) is that this form of nicknaming, using a word connected to a protected characteristic, is not appropriate. Whether or not anyone is offended.

Like you would point out a live wire poking out of a wall, whether or not anyone was likely to touch it. It's there, it isn't good practice, and it could cause harm or upset in the future. What is up for discussion (or should be up for discussion) as the company pursues this is the behaviour, not anyone's individual personal feelings about it.

It sounds as if the manager is covering his own (and the department's) arse by establishing evidence that Steve does not feel he endures racism in his work.

OP: has the meeting been flagged up to you as a disciplinary? Goes your co have a disciplinary policy, and is it being followed? They cannot 'put a mark against your name' unless they do it properly within the policy. I expect the Union are advising on this.

Vixxfacee · 26/10/2016 20:54

Why do these race threads always turn into non black people telling black people what they shouldn't or should be offended by?

Vixxfacee · 26/10/2016 20:56

I would be interested in which part of the country op is in and what is the mix like in the workplace..

FlouncingIntoAutumn · 26/10/2016 20:57

How can you tell peoples colour by the style of their posting? I love forums for the fact you can't see gender, colour, disability etc