Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

[OhBollocksFuck]

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

In the eyes of the law therefore this complaint nothing. Even if the women complaining is black.

Steve is in this situation the only person who can make a complaint of racisim or harassment is him. Calling him black Steve does not imply racism or intent to disadvantage or discriminate.

This is what I was thinking thank you bubble and southall. There is nowhere left to go, because the 'recipient' themselves is totally ok about it.

Only read a part of the thread yes yes I know RTFT but a few years ago I went to work for a company where someone kept referring to me as Scottie Dog. When speaking to other people in the company he would just say to other them ask Scottie Dog to do it. Yes I'm Scottish this was in England by a Dutch employee. No one corrected him on it until after a few weeks I told him to never call me that again.

It wasn't racist but it was hugely offensive to me. I find it incredibly strange that if two people have the same name you just say Steve T and Steve H. Why on earth would you do anything else.

Suspect new lady may not last long in the job anyway?

But if Steve is the only black employee, or in a significant minority, its highlighting he's under represented in the workplace so couldn't that be seen as discriminatory?

So is it racist to acknowledge that somebody is black when they are black.

If supposing you were called Irish John because there was an English john, would Irish john be anti-Irish?

Personally I don't think so but perhaps this is more complicated. But it shouldn't be.

REmember how we all laughed when some fool said to Eric Cantona as an insult ''you're.......... French''.

No flouncing being a minority in the work place is not discriminatory.
My local indian resturant does not have one non Asian person working there. Can they be viewed as racist or discrimintory?

Unless a company refuses to employ anyone but a certain race they are not seen as discriminating against anyone.

DamePastel - I suspect many on this thread have had years of inculcation in political correctness and genuinely find it difficult to apply critical thinking to situations. It's all to do with intent. There appears to be none in this situation. These are blokes working in transportation who I feel would speak up if they felt they were being got at.

Intent has nothing to do with whether something is racist... What about someone using the N word because that's the word they were taught when they were growing up. They don't mean any harm by it, but nevertheless most people would find the usage offensively racist.

How about "Big breasted Linda" and "Small breasted Linda"? These are just descriptions, and there's nothing inherently bad with either big or small breasts, but no one in their right mind would use nick names like that to describe colleagues (I hope!)

I have a gender-ambiguous name. If I worked with a man with the same name would it be OK to call me Alex-with-tits and him Alex-with-no-tits? Because that is factually accurate and descriptive.

x-posted! Weirdly

Actually, OP, if this is going down the formal complaint route I'd be wary of discussing it with Steve in the pub.

Could be considered an attempt to derail/minimise the proceedings, if you were construed as having put Steve in an awkward position - if he's your friend he might feel obliged to say 'oh I'm fine with it', or, equally, he might be pissed off with complainant & that then makes her position awkward.

Not saying you should not tell him what's going on if he asks directly (assuming you haven't explicitly been told not to discuss) , but I'd be careful of pro actively breaching confidentiality around the proceedings.

But Bublegum not employing an Asian in your scenario is not choosing to highlight anything as discriminatory, but if they'd had a sigificant number of asian job aplicants they'd rejected then who knows.

Highlighting Steves race, as a minority in the work place, singles him out. Is discrimination singling out?

RBF -

Olennas. The first part of your post I would say is down to education. Are you talking about how it used to be in the Deep South of USA? Not a good example.

As regards Linda example, again I cannot think of any woman who would like to be called that, or any workplace so lost in time. It's a non-starter.

Once, at work, there were two of us with my common name, say Anna. This was in England where I used to live The other one was called "Posh Anna". I was just 'Anna'. So i felt like rough was hanging in the air before my name. However, occasionally I reminded them haughtily ''I'm posh in my own country I'll have you know''. :-p I'm now working for another company en my own country again and there are two people with my name. This time the other one is Young Anna. Sometimes what's not said can potentially offend as well.

Highlighting Steves race, as a minority in the work place, singles him out. Is discrimination singling out?

He is not singled out because white Steve is called white Steve so just like black Steve white Steves skin colour is used to describe him thetefore they are treated equally.

Intent has nothing to do with whether something is racist... What about someone using the N word because that's the word they were taught when they were growing up.

Rappers both black and white use the word nigger alot to describe each other. This word is only bad when used to hurt or discriminate against. It realy does matter with what intent it is used.

How about "Big breasted Linda" and "Small breasted Linda"?

As long as both Lindas were happy to be called that then it has nothing to do with anyone else.

That scenario cannot go anywhere. Unless the newcomer woman is black herself, she cant do anything legally if both Steves are OK with their names. She can be offended as much as she likes, but it's a non-starter.

What happens then if:
A group of men in the workplace make derogatory comments against women in general or one woman in particular.

A man who has a clue hears them. He is offended and says that this is making the workplace hostile.

Can he then not complain? Could he complain if he heard the comment about one woman in particular?

Dame - The choice of prefixes that offices choose says a lot about them. The errors in the examples was their choice of "posh" and "young", because if they had chosen another prefix you could have had appropriate ones too. But I think the best differentiating style is to say is to use the initial of your surname, i.e. that is Anna D. and I am Anna V.

But white Steve isn't in a minority. White is the significant majority descriptor so its not disadvantaging or discriminating where as highlighting a minority is?

A group of men in the workplace make derogatory comments against women in general or one woman in particular

drspouse - Men generally do not go running to HR or to a supervisor. He may tell them to knock it off, but men operate differently to women. If a woman hears the derogatory remarks about herself or about women generally, then it is an actionable situation.

Rappers both black and white use the word nigger alot to describe each other. This word is only bad when used to hurt or discriminate against. It realy does matter with what intent it is used.

No, they can use it because they are black. Like you can insult your mother but woe betide your DP if he does.

How about "Big breasted Linda" and "Small breasted Linda"?

As long as both Lindas were happy to be called that then it has nothing to do with anyone else.

Actually I'd find that pretty intrusive and hostile especially if it is male workers saying it. Even if I wasn't one of the Lindas. Would it be OK for the men in the workshop to have a girly calendar and say "cor, look at the breasts on that" because the girl in the calendar doesn't work with you?

Men generally do not go running to HR or to a supervisor. He may tell them to knock it off, but men operate differently to women.

Some do. That's a sweeping generalisation and nothing whatsoever to do with my example. If the man in question found it offensive - because he was, you know, a human being - would that mean it wasn't something offensive to do because no woman happened to hear it?

What happens then if:
A group of men in the workplace make derogatory comments against women in general or one woman in particular.

A man who has a clue hears them. He is offended and says that this is making the workplace hostile.

Of course he can complain however he would struggle to uphold that complaint as sexist as no women was directly affected. But he has the right to feel comfortable at work so that would be a work place policy and not protected under the equality act.
Same way and all female workforce could make men jokes and 1 women was offended dhe could complain but it is not against the equality act.
People are allowed to have views and opinions but they cannot be aired at the harm of another.

In fact - in the workshop there is a girly calendar. The new apprentice, who is male, is actually a sensitive human being unlike the old lags. He is upset by this.

Are the old lags right to a) tell him to grow a pair or b) say oops we are a bit unreconstructed aren't we, that might be offensive to human beings, we'll stop?