Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

[OhBollocksFuck]

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

yes.. clearly I do....

Being white isn't a protected characteristic so the associated risk of racism isn't there.

Actually it is (white) a pc. Race is the pc. What race that is does not matter. So white/black makes no difference.

I'll sleep easy now you have put me in my place

I love it when others tell me what I can or can't be offended about

Pot... colour.... lol too easy

Sorry crazy but you dont.
To prove racism legally it needs to have caused harm/disadvantage to the person or group.
In the OPs case the terms black/white are used as discriptors for 2 people. Niether name is used to hurt nor are they treated unequally because of it. It only is only used to differenciate between 2 people of the same name. This is not racist in the eyes of the law unless 1 of the people involved deems it to be hurtful or feels it puts them at a disadvantage.

I love it when others tell me what I can or can't be offended about

But that is exactly what this new worker is doing. She has decided that black Steve does not have the ability to think for himself or decided what he wants to be called. So she who is not affected by his nickname has decided to drag this to a formal complaint. What right has she got to put Steve through that?

Bubblegum what are you going on about.

Stop fixating on the racist and the law.

I, as a black woman have the right to complain to my boss if I feel uncomfortable with what I perceive as a derogatory way of describing someone.

It is written down in my policy that I have the right to work in an environment that's free from harassment and discrimination.

Even if the OP is not breaking any laws and it's deemed by the highest court in the land as not racist - that's fine. However that does not take away my right to complain.

Simple.

I can complain if I don't like someone's perfume, I can complain if someone is chatting to much and disturbing me - neither are breaking the law or a direct attack upon me.... but I am still within my rights to complain.

Can we just leave it there because we are never going to agree to disagree?

I do not want to argue and clearly cannot compete with all your training

And I as agreeing with your telling me "I need to learn the law"

I'm not legally trained but have historically been a relatively senior manager and handled more HR issues than i'd like to have had too, so have an ongoing casual interest in this sort of thing. I thought there had been a fairly high profile case where 'white' was declared not a race so not a pc. I really can't remember details but it tweeked my interest and has stuck with me. I'm going to have to google it and see what I can find.

Of course you have that right but you must accept that if black Steve wants to be addressed that way and is happy and comfortable to be addressed that way then you have no right to shout racism.

It is a discriptor with no racist intent and is not directed at you. Therefore you have no right to decide what Steve wants to be called and to take that right awy from him is not treating him equally.

I am happy to agree to disagree with you crazy

OP I hope that both Steves are given the chance to speak for themselves and to choose what they are comfortable with.

I'm shocked by how many people think this is racist or discriminatory. It just isn't. Calling someone black or white or Asian is just what they are. It only becomes racist or discriminatory if it is said to be unpleasant or if Steve were in some way being discriminated against eg Black Steve was not put forward for jobs, or was overlooked for promotion or being paid less etc etc etc.

Definition of discriminatory: the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Under the law, its only discrimination if someone is treated differently AND worse than someone else because of their protected characteristic.

Having said all of this though, it is possible that under law this could be considered harassment:
Harassment is when someone behaves in a way which offends you or makes you feel distressed or intimidated. This could be abusive comments or jokes, graffiti or insulting gestures. It has to be related to race (or another protected characteristic) and doesn't have to be directed at you for it to count as harassment (e.g. Jokes about someone who is black in the office may not offend Steve, but have obviously offended this other woman). However the behaviour does have to be meant to or have the effect of either:
• violating your dignity, or
• creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment.

You also need to be very careful about changing your behaviour towards this woman (or even worse speaking to others and then her being treated badly because if her complaint) as this could be considered victimisation (again under the Equalities Act).

Essentially I don't personally think it's racist or discriminatory but you need to be very careful as it would be easy to say or do the wrong thing and fall foul if the law. Hopefully your union is able to provide you with some good advice.

www.fpb.org/business-support/equality-act-2010-protected-characteristics-and-types-discrimination
no mention of white race not being a protected characteristic the equality apoplies to all races. Just saying that is the way I read the act and in response to a pp who said white race was not a protected characteristic.

I do not want to argue and clearly cannot compete with all your training

^^This just makes you look petty and childish.

I have had training and that is a good thing. I now feel confident to challange people who i dont feel are not following the equality act. How or why you should mock something that is a positive is beyond me.

Was absolutely not mocking you and I am sorry you took it that way.

You made me feel unintelligent by saying I need to learn the law

I am agreeing with you? Why are we still arguing.

Clearly I cannot compete with your training???

found the pp

Being white isn't a protected characteristic so the associated risk of racism isn't there.
flouncing
race (black,white,brown or yellow ) is a protected characteristic

I thought we agreed to disagree.

I agreed with you that I need to learn the law and I couldn't compete or argue with your training, how is this a bad thing?

I am accepting my shortcomings?

Southall Although it's not the point of the thread, I wanted to provide some reassurance that London is fine. I am English (I'm not sure why it matters, but you mentioned English friends being scared), blonde and small, and I tend to attract the weirdos wherever I am - but I am entirely fine. There's a few places that you'd avoid, as Superfly mentioned, because it's a bit knife-y, but generally London is fine.

It's quite easy to get stuck in a fear cycle about this type of thing, so I'm sure this won't feel genuine, but it really is okay.

The newcomer is not a black woman, as far as we know, otherwise OP would have said so.

She is offended, but the two Steves are not. She has brought disruption to a roomful of workers and stress to OP.

It was not an attempt to make you feel unintelligant. Up until this week i didnt really understand the equality act or how it works regarding the law. I had good training and it was brilliant. I can now recognise what is and is not acceptable in the workplace and outside.

I was sooooo pc that when i was describing a missing and very dangerous person to the police i avoided using the word black as it did not want to appear racist!! That was stupid of me as that word just describes somebody.
I am now not afraid to describe a person as black or white or pakistani or blonde or tall or fat or thin. As long as i do not use those words to harm or disadvantage a person its ok.

crazy

You need to learn the law crazy

That was an attempt to belittle me.

I have derailed this thread enough

MNHQ have assured me the OP is genuine.

Good luck OP

anchor Thank you. I am a 42 year old Asian woman born in London and I will not go into East London in the evenings. My English white friends find it very hostile, and one of them had her breast fondled and called names. I have been abused with obscenities (not by English men I hasten to add), as has my SiL. Women are not welcome in the evening in E1.

I stand corrected white is a protected characteristic as a race.

I still question, out of curiosity and wanting to fully understand, whether in a majority white workplace using the term white can be a discriminatory factor if it is not at a disadvantage, having particular needs or underrepresented in an activity or place of work.

That was an attempt to belittle me

Honestly it wasnt. Everyone should learn it. I was, or so i thought, pretty clued up on what was and was not an ism in the context of the equality act. I knew fuck all as it turns out .
I thought being so right on with words and terminology was right when infact i was treating people unequally and assuming so much about a person that i forgot they are a person in their own right and have the right to decide what is or is not offensive/upsetting/rude/wrong.

I will always challange any ism but now i do it by looking at the bigger picture.

What happens when:
She says: I'm offended that he's called black Steve.
He says: I'm NOT offended by being called black Steve.

?

Oblomov That scenario cannot go anywhere. Unless the newcomer woman is black herself, she cant do anything legally if both Steves are OK with their names. She can be offended as much as she likes, but it's a non-starter.