Message for Xenia

[opinionsrus]

What I would like to ask is how exactly do you find so much spare time to chat on these boards about earning between £100k and £250k when you have five children of your own and also what seems must be a very demanding full time job?

I have just one child and a very part time job and this will be about the only 5 minutes I get to luxuriate on the internet?

should read it cost me......every morning.

Not distain. Just can't understand how any human being can prefer domestic service/childcare to work with the fun bits of children. Still don't understand it. I can understand people not emotionally being prepared to be separated from tiny babies but voluntarily to take on the role of housewife completely bemuses me. Perhaps if people tell me why they prefer it. Is it because they didn't have interesting jobs or is it a kind of spritual satisfaction like nuns get numbly scrubbing floors... I could understand that I suppose or is it the way people are brought up, a kind of cultural belieft it's right women don't work when their children are under 5.

and I cant understand how a mother can leave her 2 week old child by choice to go to work, a puppy isnt even parted from the bitch until at least 6-8 weeks old

I did actually feel for you xenia when you got a slating, although I hadnt read your previous comments I did think people were harsh, but now have read a couple of other posts on here I can understand why people were saying the things they did, as the saying goes give you enough rope

I have always gone back fulltime to work by the time mine were 8-12 weeks old,( 12 weeks for the twins ! 8 weeks, or thereabouts for my three singletons ), and that seemed an age....I think in a very similar way to Xenia,,absolutely love/adore my children but find most of the routine /drudgy bits of childcare very, very boring.I think that's because they are actually boring and unsatisfying compared to my job,( I mean loading washing machine with baby clothes, tidying nursery, going shopping for nappies....),which is demanding, never the same two days running and involves me in making difficult decisions.I love the bits of parenting that involve direct interaction with my children, teaching them things and having fun/helping them resolve issues etc. The other bits,( obvously some overlap ), are happily and efficiently done by a lovely trained nanny, who , most importantly imo loves doing it.
I found that by 8-12 weeks post partum I was fully recovered from birth, breastfeeding was well established and I was ready to get back into the real world.It also means that despite having had 5 children in 5 years I have only taken 9 months of maternity leave,( I never took any leave beforehand, as always found waiting bit intensely boring so didn't feel need to add to this by lolling around at home..), and that has had very little impact on my career, especially as I always kept in touch with my work throughout mat leave and gradually eased self back into work by going in from 2nd/3rd week for ward rounds etc.
Just as some will find this ' incredible ' and, no doubt, slate me for it...I find being at home all day , every day for 5 or more years doing the SAHM thing mindblowing...Each to his own, although I do hold a strong opinion that being economically active is better for families overall,

I am so shocked at this thread. I'm relatively new to mn and thought it a really supportive environment where people had an ability to say what they thought without being demonised. The whole "she can't be real because I don't agree with her" thing has really upset me.

As for being blunt and rubbing people up the wrong way, the 1000 posting thread about giving up a very very well paid job to stay at home did have some postings from Xenia which were blunt and would definitely upset me if I was still a SAHM. However, as a working mum I (and many others) were not exactly pleased to be told how we were cruel and damaging our children in equally unpleasant and blunt ways. I know, let's go through that thread and start witch hunt threads on everyone who was equally nasty/dismissive/judgemental about working mums as Xenia was about SAHMs.

Or may be I'll just give up on this website (after all, as a working mum I musn't spend time on the internet as I've no right to do anything except be with children or work). If this kind of thing continues, I'm sure a lot of people will follow me.

Xenia I'm curious to know how you managed to afford fulltime childcare and a house at the very start of your career.

You say you had your first child at 22 and went to work full-time when your baby was 2 weeks old. I can't imagine many 22 year olds, straight out of University, being able to afford to have a baby and then go back to work full-time. Not now anyway. Getting on the property ladder and paying off student debts would be most 22 year olds' (who wanted to settle down at that young age) financial priorities.

On another thread you advocated that everyone should do things your way, have their children young so they can incorporate them alongside building up their career. Hats off to you that you did that, especially in the 80s, but it doesn't seem like it would sit well with the 22 year olds of today. For a start, many graduate women don't even meet their settling-down-with partners until their 30s.

To answer your question, I don't think people do prefer domestic work in the home and the messier parts of spending time with a child to doing something more interesting instead.

Many women give up interesting jobs because they can't decrease their hours and they don't want to spend so much time away from their children by working fulltime. Some people don't have a job that fits around nursery opening times but cannot afford a nanny or do not have a spare bedroom for a live-in nanny that could do the hours they require. Some people don't earn enough to make it worthwhile to have multiple children in childcare. Some people feel compelled to be their child's main carer and look upon it as a nurturing/teaching role rather than one of domestic servitude.

I think I probably held the same views as you at the age of 22 and didn't even want children then. But luckily I grew up and my views surrounding children changed. Even parents who work 5 days per week and spend time with their children on evenings and weekends have to do some of the shitty parts of childcare. It's not as simple as delegating bits you don't like out to others, else you'd need a permanent bottom-wiper and snot- remover to follow you around 24/7.

Xeni - I feel like you are a stuck record and haven't gained anything from the varied posts that many different women have shared about their work/childcare/life set-up. You may be highly educated and have a high flying career but you don't come across as very open-minded.

And since I sound like a stuck record also - I will bow out and go and unload the washing machine or something. Ooh highlight of my day!

Tinkerbel5, run along now and play nicely (elsewhere).

Mohze, I completely agree with you. I have to kids and went back to work at 2 weeks (DD), and 3 months (DS). I was working contract with the first and truley needed to return for financial reasons. With DS, I also need to go beack for financial reasons. But, at about 8 weeks I really began to want to go back to work. I had to give up any idea of a cleaner or any other domestic help in order to fund that thrid month of mat. leave. I found being home to be far more about housework than I did quality time with my children. So, in hindsight, I would have been better off with 8 weeks of mat. leave and a bit of domestic help.

I went into work to go to a meeting three weeks after the birth of DD (I otherwise spent those first two weeks back at work working from home) and a guy I work with said "Where's the baby?" And I sarcastically responded "under my desk" and the I said seriously, "she's at the childminder" (duh, you moron. where else would she be.) Then he turned to another male colleague and said "Did you hear that? 3 weeks old and already at the childminder" I was angrier than words can say. I still work with him. I still have not forgiven him. But I very much enjoyed the day that it was announced that I being promoted above him. (I'm not directly above him, but nonetheless I wouldn't trade my job for his) HA! Jerk!

Returning to work soon after the birth does not indicate a lesser love for my children: rather it is a sign of a dislike for domestic chores.

Sorry about my rant about the jerk.

Mozhe - why do you call work "the real world"?

poppynic, run along and play with tinkerbel5.

Would that be in our imaginary world?

I've had enough of 'the real world'. Reality bites.

I'd take the imaginary one anyday.

Just wanted to say, I agree with Mozhe. I've been extremely lucky in managing to hold down a career as a lawyer working between 20 & 25 hours per week.
I know it's not an option for a lot of people and I still did an awful lot of bum wiping at the same time as writing briefs etc.
Everyone should do what they can, which isn't always what they want.

Nope. Just not here. I think you are stirring. So, that's why I told you to go play nicely.

If you have a constructive contribution to the discussion, go ahead. But, let's not nit pick on phrases such as "the real world".

Uwil dont you have work to do, hahahaa !!!

I think everyone does whats best for them and we all need money to survive, wouldnt the world be boring if we were the same

yes, but sometimes I have to wait for things to load into the portal, so I can type here in between.

What does that have to do with this discussion?

I can't believe people do that much housework! When I was a sahm I took my dd to toddler groups. It took time but I eventually found a little circle of friends and we all got on really well, we'd meet up in the park or each other's houses and very often in the evenings sans enfants too. I baked with dd, we did paintings, went on long walks to the park.
Housework took up about half an hour of my day, I mean, how long does it take to vacuum, wash up and stick some clothes in the machine?

Don't get me wrong, I did miss work and the individuality it gave me, as well as financial independance. In those days though I had the time to go to a couple of college courses and work voluntary.

Now I find myself having to work just to keep us in the black. I enjoy my job, but I do miss my kids and I find that I no longer have the time to do all those nice things with them. I'm too knackered for one! And my wages would never support a cleaner!

So I do feel that my ds is missing out on the lovely times me and dd shared.

How do you find the time to work full-time, do the housework and have some quality time with your kids? Are you all on speed or something?

and what does telling people to go off and play have to do with this discussion, if was a nice debate until the bitchy comment

You know what, Tinkerbel5, I find "and I cant understand how a mother can leave her 2 week old child by choice to go to work, a puppy isnt even parted from the bitch until at least 6-8 weeks old " deeply offensive and is not be brushed over or forgiven with a "".

You haven't ever posted under the screenname "sceptic" have you? Or was it "skeptic"?

Well, personally I think asking people questions about what they have said is a constructive way of finding out what they are thinking behind what they are writing. And I also tend to think that the use of the phrase "the real world" may indicate quite a lot about a person's basic belief system, leading to choices they make and maybe a better understanding of why they make them. I'm sorry if you thought I was just stirring, it wasn't my intention. Should I email any questions to you first to gain a "constructivity rating"?

Rhubarb I was the same, I was taking DD to jungle gym, swimming, round to friends houses to play, and the local church toddler group where the kids could play and you got a cup of coffee, I loved it.

no. Have too much e-mail as it is.