High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

It's good to catch up with what everyone is saying. I have to say the best thing I did was find a really good role outside London. I could probably be earning 50-100% more in the City, I still earn a significant amount, and have a better life and probably a better job in terms of career profile and satisfaction, I've gone from small fish big (well paid) pond, to big fish small pond. While I loved the job I was in, I really resented the time I was spending commuting, it was about 4 hours a day that felt wasted.

One thing I like about being senior is that I can work more flexibly, and use it to attend special assemblies every so often and I work late anyway.

I think I was quite lucky, I got a big promotion when I was 6 months pregnant. When you are senior, sometimes you just have to be tough and direct, it's not easy. Also, make sure you get credit for the ideas you came up with.

Sheissmall, that is tough re your DH. I know what you mean about 4 days being no different to 5, just with less money. It's what my boss said to me as she refused my request for 4 days!! But if you are enjoying that day and the extra time with the dc, just carry on.

I'm going back 5 days but with at least 2 from home. As DS will be at home with the nanny I hope that I will get to see a bit more of him those days - a game before work, a sandwich together, maybe a cheeky mid avo breastfeed... Between conference calls and a mound of emails of course!

I guess I am lucky that my DH has been supportive and has left it to me to decide what I want to do. He wasn't that keen that I not return at all, but if I'd have been desperate not to go back he would have been ok with that.

She is, there are advantages to children of working mothers. Far from childcare not being the end of the world there is an argument it's superior to a mother or father at home. Assuming there are no women who don't work on the thread who will kill me for saying so..... children who have more than one influence in their lives usually do better, they also have the example that women work and are successful and as most children copy their parents and it is what parents do not say that counts the female child is likely to have a good career herself in due course and her brothers not expect women's role to be at home cleaning and cooking. Also happy parents make happy children and most parents are happier working rather than with children and domestic things 24/7. Also money matters - the outcomes for children in the UK largely depend on hard cash. No one dies wishing they had lived their life in poverty.

If you look at my 20 somethings - I have every day my daughter calling either with a question about work (we are in the same profession) or career development. The children have graduated debt free because I earn. The younger girl bought a flat in 2012 because I was able to help her with the deposit and because her own career means in her 20s she has an income high enough to enable that. She tweeted one of my work tweets yesterday. her friend who works for the Evening Standard picked it up. My daughter was pleased about that - in other words in their 20s they seem to be happy about and proud of my career and are feminists. That makes me very happy. Also if your daughters end up in similar City careers you have that is a nice connection.

Anyway I must rush as I'm trying to get teenagers up and move some very heavy boxes and rubbish - it is not all exciting meetings around here although actually moving heavy boxes is probably one of the things that keeps me happy and healthy - physical stuff which is harder to keep going if you have very small children.

Looking back now to the mid 80s when our first children were small of course I recognise lots of the issues women raise on this thread. It all seemed more important - how many hours we were with the children etc. Now with hindsight all those years worrying the nanny might leave (she stayed 10 years) seem silly. She was easily replaced with someone better. The children didn't really care at all. Their lives were school and friends by then. They didn't have a close mother / father type bond with her probably because it was her two parents with her a lot plus their nanny rather trhan a Winston Churchill situation - never really knew parents at all and only loved and was close to his nanny which is very different from what most parents achieve these days. Anyway I must be off.

Laura, I don't want to derail the thread but actually I don't agree with you. Every woman in my family going back in the generations has worked. I work (obviously) and work hard to mentor and coach women post return to work. However, my dmil didn't work. She is just as good a mother to her dcs as my dm. They are very alike. Her dd (so dsil) is a senior person at a Magic Circle law firm, ie just as successful (well pre-dcs anyway) as her ds (ie my dh). I hate this nonsense that I am somehow be a more superior mother because of my job. From what I can see, we all muddle through and try and get it right. I quite frankly bow my head to anyone who does a sahm role, especially to young ones. I think it takes a special kind of patience so I know I really couldn't do it.

I really want to find some time to read this whole thread properly because I hope I'm not going to be a dissenting voice.

I worked for a top law firm for many years before moving to become a partner at a regional firm (with the hope of better work/life balance that didn't materialise) and then leaving last year to set up on my own.

I think I'm currently in a very fortunate position where I seem to be able to have it all. But working for a large law firm and relying heavily on childcare, whilst it seemed like it worked at the time, was not having it all. It is incredibly difficult to do it long term and sacrifices are made along the way. My DH is also a partner in a law firm so between the two of us we were working very long hours. You simply can't have it all because there are not enough hours in the day. You certainly can pay others to cook, clean, shop and do the garden, those things are unimportant, as long as someone does them but being with your children cannot be done unless you're there. Yes they can be loved and well looked after but that time with them is fleeting and once its gone its gone.

I'm lucky now. I have low overheads and a reputation in my area I worked long and hard for and so can earn six figures whilst sitting in my dressing gown at the dining room table having packed the kids off to school and then I am there at the school gates every night waiting for them. I also earn enough that its taken the pressure off DH a bit and so he's also able to spend more time with the DCs. But I appreciate this is just a fortunate mixture of luck and circumstances.

At the end of the day its about money. If necessary I could quite easily walk away from my job now. I have nothing to prove. I've done it, I was good at it I now need to focus on what is the most important and that is the two small boys who want their parents around. They know that women work just as hard as men, (they know in fact that I bring in more money than DH!) and they know that to have nice things in life you have to work hard. Its not gifted to you on a plate. Its important to me (particularly having two boys) that they realise that women are just as able to have successful careers as men. But if I had to I would walk away in a heartbeat, sell the house and change my life completely. I might not be as mentally stimulated but the most important thing for my children is having time with their parents.

OK, you can throw rocks at me now, I've ducked

'Mummytracked' yep I know what that feels like. I didn't quit though, if I am honest it gave me time to adjust and have some work life balance until my DS started school (yep 4 dull years). I am back on track now and don't feel any negative effect.
Re the guilt it is somewhat easier that you don't have an option, you earn the money that pays for the house, schools, holidays, etc. That always helps me.

Littlered, no rocks from here. DH and I have been grinding away at kids and two "career" jobs for six years and it's hard, definitely!

Isn't part of the problem that some careers just don't offer many viable alternatives to either working flat out or not working at all? For lots of high earning women there isn't the option to take a pay cut, move out of London, work flexibly, cut commuting time etc. The jobs simply don't exist until/unless you're fortunate enough to be able to work for yourself and still have a reliable income (or not need one).

I've seen so many talented women give up and tell themselves they'll try to get back into the market in a few years. It might happen or it might not. It's a huge risk, particularly when most organisations still frown upon gaps in experience.

Exactly, Million - and it doesn't get easier to juggle with and childcare, IME, it gets harder (albeit cheaper!) so I don't understand how the "go back after a few years" equation is supposed to work.

Yes, n o men of course jkust as much as women can be utterly idle and have a load of money an d sit around with their children all day. If that is having it all unless you are the heir to the Duke of Westminster or Bernie E then you don't tend to get that kind of life.

However the suggestion that for women but not men there is something called "not having at it all"W which means women not men have to do worse in their careers is very very damaging to women. In fact I don't like people using the phrase having it all - it is a phrase thrown at women but never men and is just used to keep us down and out of the arena of professional success. I'd love it to be ditched.

(I only mentioned why children benefit from successful high earning mothers because so very often we have thrown at us that children are damaged if mothers (but never fathers of course in this sexist world) work. I also do believe there are lots of advantages to children if mothers work and that the idea there is some ideal panacea that the perfect child is only produced if it's mother is at home all day is wrong).

Its hard and I guess what everyone is saying is really up to the individual. Although high earning I still have a lot of career development that I can and want to do.

For me, having my first child has come up at a critical juncture for my career in respect of my position and age. This co-insides with my mid 30's and realistically I know if I want two children I need to bite the bullet and get on with it. Yes, I could have waited a bit longer but there is never a right time etc and no guarantee that in 3 years I would be in any better position than I am now.

It would be the same for a man in my position but they don't have the added pressures of being seen on mummy track. Also I know that if I jumped off the wagon for a few years it would take ages for me to get back to the position that I am in now - there just are not that many jobs out there in my industry doing what I do at my level. A few years hard slog will a) break me or b) be totally worth it and I will come out of the other end ok or c) a combination of the two!

I don't want to have it all we just want to have a good and fulfilling life (what ever that means to us!) Myself and my partner know that sacrifices will be made, but we also are aware of the fact that we do have options and can afford to go down this route if we want to. A lot of my lower earning friends really just don't have that even if they are wedded to their career which for what ever reason doesn't afford them the pay for them to have choices.

One comment I would add is that you can plan all the logistical elements like cleaner, nanny etc but what is less predictable is how you will feel about returning to work.

I went back to work very early on and loved it then felt guilty and gave it up after a few months, then got very frustrated as a SAHM (hard to slow down after a high pressure city career!) and went back to a new role a few months later and loved work again. Quite a roller coaster that first year!

Gearing up to going back to work and watching this thread with interest. Love the idea of support networks on and offline.

I agree with the common theme of equal responsibility with partners. My DH is brilliant, if impractical!

I've wrestled with the idea of going pt and this thread has confirmed my hunch that it won't work for me.

Thanks, all, for a great thread.

Just marking my place to remember to come back to read this thread. I am currently trying to work out when to return from maternity leave (DD2 is 5 months old).

For what it's worth I took 1 year off with DD1 and feel it was a bit too long/damaging for my career, it also then didn't help that I had DD2 just 6 months after I returned to work. This time I'm planning on doing 4 days a week instead of 3 and taking on a live-in nanny rather than a daily to take the pressure off getting home on time.

I am lucky to also have a high earning DH who has reasonable working hours DH (well, better than mine, we both work in the city) although that brings along its own problems as many other mothers I know simply can't understand why is chose to continue to work when I financially don't need to!

littleredsquirrel you are right of course that the one thing money can't buy is more time with your children.

I think everyone (male and female) has to decide how much time they really need to spend with their DC and how much their DC really need them to be there. That will vary for each parent and for each child.

In my case, I do feel I see enough of my child whilst working 4 days a week - I see her every morning and every evening bar one (when DH does bedtime and I work late), all day Friday and weekends. She doesn't sleep much (bed at 8.15pm up at 6.30am) - the silver lining is that I see her a lot! I don't miss her while I'm at work.

I also feel she sees enough of me and I don't think she misses me. She is a very independent child, never been clingy and she loves the activities she does with her nanny (which if I'm honest I probably wouldn't do). Having a great nanny makes such a difference here.

When I was growing up I had a nanny (parents both worked long hours) and I was totally ok with "only" seeing my parents mornings, evenings and weekends, so hopefully my DC will be the same. However they may be different - only time will tell.

I am very envious of your position by the way! Well done. Sadly I am not sufficiently specialist or well known to set up on my own...

Just an aside but I LauraBridges mentioned people in a position to sit around idle all day, the heir to the Duke of Westminster being one of them.

The heir to the Duke of Westminster is one of the richest women in the country. She's also a professional criminologist who works for the prison service. She doesn't have to, she could of course sit around idle all day (like the other example given!) - I presume she does it because work isn't just about the money, it's also about being part of society, and gaining intellectual, social and emotional fulfilment by doing something interesting and useful.

A couple of years ago several of my 'mummy friends' were saying that they didn't work because 'because we are lucky enough that I don't need to'. What does that mean? They don't need to this year? Never again? Now that their children are starting school some are realising that they will never get back into the career they trained for and worked hard in and are hardly relishing the prospect of a lifetime of manicures and charity coffee mornings (both of which are perfectly respectable pastimes, but not exactly life-fulfilling).

You ladies are all quite inspiring, by the way :)

I think this idea of needing "more time with your children" is one of the ways our society subtly but importantly keeps women down. There's never any suggestion that a man doesn't have enough time with his children, why is it an issue for women? I feel that a man or a woman who work so much they never see their children is bad. But I honestly don't see it as a problem if you are there weekends and at least some of the time during the week. In fact, I think my relationship with DS is probably better and since DH has started doing some more work and DS has been at nursery, their relationship is better too. It means that when we are together we are genuinely spending time together. When I'm looking after DS by myself for days on end, I'm just enduring.

I love DH, but before we had DS I didn't feel any need to be with him all the time. And I feel the same about DS.

Indeed. It is just a sexist tool used against women. I have been criticised before now on mumsnet for saying that spending about 2 or 3 hours a day with the children is lovely and about my lot. No one would criticise men for saying that. I would say it is about balance.

A balanced day for me is a few hours with the children, work, sleep, eating, hobbies. A balanced day for me has never been having sole charge of a baby and toddler from 7am to 8pm or whenever they go to sleep. That would be a day I don't enjoy. It would be an unbalanced not so nice day. I don't see why women aren't allowed to say that. Every culture in history always has found that men and women with the money or spouse or servants or in Roman times slaves to do it will have help with their children so they can achieve a balanced life. That balance isn't hours or housework and looking after small children day in day out in my view and for me and I write that as someone who adores babies and children and has been lucky enough to have five over a long period because I like it so much in those measured smaller lovely balanced doses.

In fact it took me at least 10 years of being a parent to realise that even on holidays some hours without the children are what I and they need.

Can I join please? I work in the City - Asset Management not Investment Bank and have a very senior role. Earnings a good way into the 6 figures. 2 dds and a working DH.

For me, the only way it all works is because a) you need to be realistic about the kind of roles you can and can't do, b) you need to be flexible with your time and c) you need to outsource as much as you can afford so as to maximise what you can do with the free time you do get.

So, for me (and i often end up saying this in career sessions / lunches I host at work) that meant, not doing a job which needed you to be present in the office between particular hours. In other words, I am not a fund / portfolio manager and nor am I involved directly in market realted activity.

It also means that i am prepared to be very flexible with my time. I have a 90 minute commute. I sometines get in at 7:30am but leave at 4:30. I sometimes gets in a 9:15 and leave a 9pm. I pretty much always do calls / additional work in the evenings and have a work laptop with a canera so that I can VC to other offices.

I have help at home. My DH has a grwat job but he has more flex than i do and is prepared to pick up the slack where needed. He can also work at home a fair bit. I have a nanny / housekeeper who looks after us all fantastically meaning all the washing, cleaning, chores, etc. are all done. My DH and i are also cinstantly on the phone organising our time around his client meetings and my freakishly crazy work diary.

My MIL would love my dds to be wild banshees with emotional attachment issues given that i work full-time (and travel overseas a fiar bit too) and only see them briefly each day during the week. But you know what - they're incredibly well balanced and totally understand the fact that we have the things we have, do the activities they do and go on the lovely holidays we do because DH and I work so hard. Weekends they know are pretty much their time with us and it all works really well.

Dontl get me wrong - it's not all rosy! I do have the clinging child every so often and the guilt trips about never being around. But as they get older, they're awake longer and we really do have time to chat about their day and go through any concerns. I also make it my mission never to miss a school play or sports day and have on occasion deliberately organised my time so that i can scoot off home to watch an after school netball match.

Sharing ideas and thoughts with others is invaluable. We have a 'families' network where it is very easy to connect with others facing the same challenges. I have also put myself forward as a mentor for returning mothers post maternity leave as I think that can be a vulnerable time for some. Sticking together and supporting each other is key.

HbA, that sounds good. We don't hear enough from high earning women with children who have happy lives and yet those women are out there. I am unusual in that I married just after my post grad year and we had our first child when I was almost 23 (about 15 - 20 years before most of my contemporaries) and she is now in her 20s working in the City and just married.

I feel slightly wrong to be on the thread as my youngest are teenagers and it's really really easy compared with the first children when I was just starting, our incomes were much lower and we could not even afford a cleaner. I certainly have not found things have got harder as the children got older and as we earned more money although as someone earlier on the thread said it is amazing where the money all goes (... well a lot has gone on 5 sets of school and university fees of course... money well spent). I now work for myself which of course is much easier too. It's when you are junior and cannot control your working life to the same extent and have to do what your boss says that life is harder.

Supporting others is very good. I have always tried to where I can and I hope I can help my daughters when these issues arise and the boys when they are older.

Some days are easier than others. Yesterday I was up at 5am to catch a train to a meeting out of London. Today I drove my sons to school and even collected them after when their brother couldn't. Like HbA I have gone to most school events over the years because I can usually put them in my diary and block the time off. In fact it's jobs like teaching which are supposedly family friendly which can be harder in terms of taking time off in term time for your child's events.

I do think women should look forward. When the children are grownup you might have 30 years of working life to age 70 for most of us these days which if you like your work as I do is a wonderful prospect (or you might be planning to retire early) but either way if you've kept going a career you like in the hard years with small children I think it pays off. There is a huge long period after small children. Most of our adult lives will probably be with adult children and planning for working life then works too. I am finding so much more time now. I've expanded/acquired another business, with a new bit since 1 Jan. The years for women between 5 - 60+ can be very good years suddenly with a lot more time, at your peak in a sense, most senior and highest earnings. Mind you I've always been a huge optimist and life always seems to get better so perhaps it's just down to personality but I'm hoping the 50s will be as good as 40s were.

Laura, congrats on the acquisition,

Didn't you find it hard after they started school? I guess not if you kept the nanny throughout, so there wasn't a change.

Hi everyone, I have just read this entire thread and it is extremely inspiring.

I am absolutely not currently a high earner but am in the process of waking up and realising that I have been "mummy tracked" not just by my own doing but by having three children in quick succession with a hopeless and unsupportive partner (seen the light there and he is now gone!).

I absolutely agree with the comment above that "women should look forward". I was lucky enough to have an amazing education, good qualifications, BA (Hons) followed by MSc.

What was I thinking chucking all that in and not looking to the future. Not a good example to my daughters. Anyway, it has been a gradual process of realisation but my youngest is now 2, I think there is definitely scope in my part time professional job to up the ante and show my employers I mean business and have high ambitions.

I particularly enjoyed the tips given by others and will be referring to this thread in future. Thank you all.

Hi, not read through the whole thread but am going to chip in with my two pennethworth. I had established myself in my career before having DS and then set up my own consultancy. I have worked three days a week since then and this has provided a good balanced family life. Sometimes we have to use the breakfast club and after school clubs but it is quite rare as DH and I share the pick ups etc. I.m not going to say that working part-time is as cushy as it sounds - it can be a tough juggling act at times as the work still needs to get done - just less days to do it in. But it can work.

It's so nice to read this thread. Often it seems like a negative thing to say you enjoy your job. I started a new role a year ago and I love it. It makes me feel happy. I love spending time with DD, but if we had to spend all day every day together, I think we would both get fed up and grumpy with each other.

As well as working well with DH and getting support in an emergency from DM, the other key person in my life is my PA. She understands me and makes my life easier (although I know she is grumpy with me this evening, but I'll make it up to her.) Someone who can manage your diary and be a good gatekeeper is worth their weight in gold. As I've got better at recruitment, I focus a lot on "will this person make my life easier?" although its couched in HR friendly language about being a self starter, happy to take responsibility, will deliver to deadlines etc.

Love thread, not in 100k but close . 3 children age 9 to 2' short mat leaves but shortest was 4 months,
Great to read like minded people. So important for us to see how to cope. I have cleaner and nanny, I feel strange saying this as sounds well off but really only way to manage
I think threads like this vital for s working moms who want to carry on career. I hope to be a role model, there were none for me. Only one senior female manger and she just had one. She has helped me and I have asked what she does but I want other women to see career and family both possible if you want