High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

This tread is very timely. I was a high earner, 100k plus, had my daughter and took redundancy while on maternity leave. I have since been working with my old boss for 3 days a week, which I know most people whould bite their hand off for.

My DH has a 100k plus job, but I was always more senior than him and more well known for what I do. But I compromised.

I have now even offered a really good job, which it am amazed to be considered for as I have been out of the errr game for 3 years.

So, do I give up a easy job that I hate but can do with my eyes closed to accept a big job where I can earn stupid amounts of money and give up my time with DD?

I have a great work/life balence but I know I can earn enough in 3-5 years to not have to work again.

Talk about a first world problem.

Reading that back I want to give myself a kick.

I must admit I came at this from a slightly different angle, so don't slate me. I am a City mum and have been for over 25 years and I have 3 children. I planned to work up to about 3 weeks before my first child (investment banking), but unfortunately my dd decided to arrive very early, so I had to leave at 28 weeks. I did take the six months off, mainly because the first month was spend in NICU.

I went back full time, but after about 18 months the impromptu travelling (go home and get your passport, you're off to NY tonight!) didn't really gel with a full time husband and a fantastic nanny. So I went to 3 days with another organisation.

Part time does work if you work it properly.... I was never contactable on my days off (well contactable, obviously, but not for rote work or meetings), I worked very late on Wednesday to finish up and leave notes for my team, then I closed my book and left! I know some of you won't agree with this approach, but it worked for me. I was promoted to MD and went up to 4 days a week and did that for a few years.

I took a couple of years off when family circumstances changed and have now gone back 2.5 days a week, still in the City.

Basically, my mantra was to fix what I wanted to earn (pretty much the figure mentioned above) and then work the appropriate number of days to earn it. I know it's not the 'Lean In' attitude at all, it's more the 'Work to Live, not Live to Work', but I've found part time work very accommodating in that respect. Now my children are growing up, I might do a couple of extra days to bolster up income and take on more management.

I agree that a helpful dh and a great nanny is key to success, but as long as you are clear with your employer the extent of your role and what you are prepared to do, part time and high earning is possible.

Shannith, I would give it a go, if you have the support network in place...I found the easiest time to work long hours was when my children were younger. Strangely, they seem to need more help/guidance/physical presence now they are in secondary!

beachyhead I know. It makes sense on every level but my big worry is my DH and how he will cope if my work takes precedence again.

He sees me now as a mum and home maker and we'd like to have another one.
Gahhhh it's so difficult.

I actually lie awake at night worrying about this as I have the capacity to earn lots and was always the one that was likely to be the main bread winner, but I'm the one that gave it all up.

I feel incredibly selfish for wanting that feeling back again. But and argh but I could earn double what he does but I don't want him to have to have to take a back seat.

No idea what to do. The feminist in me gets angry, but we are a partnership and I know he'd never hold me back but I do end up feeling that it's me that has taken on all the responsibilities of being a parent.

In short, I'm a bit pissed off but will never show it.

Shan, as a feminist I would say well the husband is just going to lump it and may be he just needs to read up a bit more on women's rights? Why should your career take second place to his? He just needs to adapt his thinking which is easily done and be proud of your career even if you earn 2x what he does.

Why should women feel selfish for wanting the feeling of being successful? Men aren't made to feel selfish for that - they are made to feel good. If working full time and earning a lot as a woman benefits the children (in my view it does many times over) rather than damages them then you are being unselfish by having the big career.

So I would say go for the big great full time job. You could of course have another baby (take my 2 weeks off and go back full time and the new baby is there). I have a client who wanted his wife to have a 4th child. She only wanted one. They both worked full time on well over £100k. He bought her a brand new BMW in the end to persuade her to have number 4 and apparently that did the trick. She still works full time.

How to retract from being the one doing most at home? I never had that situation as I earned more and before we married we talked about all this and he said he'd stop work if nannies did not work out (although they did work out). Just gradually divide tasks more fairly eg one of you cooks every night or give up having a meal together at night, he does all the washing and putting clothes away and you do the shopping. Just get a fair share going.

Shan, he doesn't get to think if you as "mum and home maker" unless that also suits you.

Each of DH and I could have got on quicker with our careers if one of us had been a SAHP or had gone part time more than the other but we earn much more as a household using up two lots of tax bands etc. Neither of us thinks of the other as the home maker, we are equal parents, equal workers etc.

Remember also that no decision is irrevocable - if you take the five day a week job and it doesn't suit you, you can do it for a year and look for something else, request four day a week working there, your DH could go Down to three days etc.

And stop feeling selfish! Do you think your DH feels selfish...?

I have in my head about 50 ways full time working benefits are good for their children but in case a non working mothers strays on to this thread I won't list them. However that kind of a mental list does help parents of either gender who think it is selfish that they work. I would say it was an unselfish and giving thing to do.

This thread is really timely for me - another high earning / long hours city worker who is currently 5 months pregnant and scared at how on earth am going to cope. My OH also is also city worker and I am concerned that even though we are getting a nanny that all the domestic stuff (getting home on time, sorting everything) is going to fall on me.

I am only planning on taking 4 months off - I sit on a number of boards and committees and luckily they dry up at the middle of the year so my absence isn't going to be that noticeable. I told a few senior people in the early days as I needed to due to budget / planning cycles, and my boss was fine and they are not even going to consider any cover/acting up to cover my role. I told two of the chairs yesterday (one female and one male) that I was 5 months and to discuss any cover they would potentially want and both were very chilled about it all which was nice but am still worrying about it.

There is a serious lack of females in my industry at a senior level who have done the kids /career thing so I do feel like I am a bit alone in figuring this all out.

Mitchell, don't worry. It will be fine. The domestic stuff will only fall on you if you let it. It's not hard to divide things fairly particularly if you're with a loving reasonable man. Perhaps you should agree between yourselves on which days which of you leaves home last and on which days gets home by 6pm or whenever the nanny will leave and then you can both book meetings around those regular deadlines. Then when it's not possible the nanny can baby sit or the other one of you can rejig their work.

In terms of washing we had someone mornings once the children were at school who did cleaning and washing and put the washing away and was here when the supermarket delivery arrived so she put it away. That worked very well.

In terms of sorting things at home it works to have separate tasks. e g for a time I never did any washing at all, my other half was 100% in charge or washing whereas I did our tax returns, admin and in due course plaiting the girls' hair for schools. We both did bed time stories and cuddles. If you have an evening meal together then a good division is one of you cooks most nights and the other deals with washing or the post/admin and tidying up (we never had a tidy nanny). If you come home and the baby is wanting to be feeding a lot in the evening (ours often did) that left its father free to tidy up, bits of cleaning, washing. We had non sleeping babies on the whole so for a time with the oldest I tended to hold her and feed her until about 10, then I went to bed and her father held her from 10 to mid night (she was a crying baby for a good few months and even now working the City herself hardly sleeps much, has insomnia often) and then I did a feed at 2 or 3 and when we got up. That difficult period only lasted a short while. It all gets easier for most people after a time.

I also recommend having a sleep at weekend afternoons whilst you alternate who takes the baby out. With the twins I used to take them to the gym on Saturday afternoon which had a lovely creche and they would go in there to adoring weekend staff for 2 hours and I had a sauna and then 90 minutes of sleep on a bed by the sauna.

I think for me it was more than anything lack of sleep which was the hardest thing.

Mitchell, I agree with Laura that having set days for each of you and DH to be back later or earlier is helpful - swap if necessary because of meetings but your colleagues knowing which days you'll be there a bit later is helpful.

And don't let the domestic stuff fall on you. Tell your nanny to call DH first if there's a problem - if it's your day to leave earlier, he can always call you.

beachy I'm very jealous you made your part-time work, it's great if you can do. One thing that always put me off was paying for a full time season ticket and parking season ticket put only earning 60% of the wage.

You have to share the overall household load, but that doesn't mean share every task evenly. There are some things I am better at and somethings DH will also do. But pay for as much help as you can get, I loved paying for someone to do my ironing, I loved her, and once I found a good cleaner, she was worth her weight in gold. Get organised, use things like Ocado.

I was lucky as I was employed, so still earning although mat pay wasn't great. One thing I did find is that I got more every month than I was expecting as I was a getting a chunky tax rebate every month as my earnings dropped so enormously.

I found it useful to have some friends who are or have been in a similar position, even now, I am the most senior woman in my organisation, so I have friends outside the organisation who I can share these stresses with.

DD is in reception, I have to say I find juggling school a lot harder than nanny/ nursery.

I would echo much of the advice given already. A few more random thoughts from me...

Part time working worked for me first time, second time it almost broke me but that's because a lot had happened in my absence and I needed to take control of situations. 4 days was fine, 3 days was a killer.

Many of my male colleagues have pictures of their family in their offices. I have the same. As someone said, never explain, never apologise. No one asks the blokes if they are less committed for having a picture of their kids, it usually casts them in a better light!

In my case, I breast fed each dc for a year after I returned to work, I had to leave. It was great in that it broke my workaholic tendencies of a lifetime. Miss the train and the baby missed his/her dinner. It propelled me out of the office dead on time each night! Now, I want to get home and see the kids, rather than have to get home, so I down tools at 5.30pm. In 99% of cases, whatever the issue can be resolved 2.5 hours later at 8pm when my dcs are asleep. I am very clear that my dcs are my priority hence I make no bones about checking my phone if I get a text as it's likely to be from my nanny. Now my dcs are at nursery/school, I also FaceTime them every afternoon to say hello and my PA schedules that in. So yes, I do think about them but in a fond way rather than a guilty way.

I think my decision making has got sharper since the dcs. I don't have time to fanny about agonising. I am more senior, pack a lot in my day and so my ability to see the big picture or get to the root of the issue quickly and make quick decisions has really helped me. I lament the wasted years of my 20s and early 30s.

Finally, I thought I had everything sorted until dd started reception in September. I felt overwhelmed by the endless notes from the school, homework, nightly book reading and trying to do drop offs or pick ups to settle dd in and get to know other. This term is going better because I have adapted, so my final thought is that flexibility and agility is very important to survive a high pressure job and parenthood!

novice I completely agree with you about reception, it's a whole new world and not easier.

I've definitely become a better decision maker, I'm far better at prioritising and don't take as much crap. I've become far tougher at recruitment, time is the most precious thing in the world, and I'm really impatient if people try and waste my time.

Hi all,
It's refreshing to read this thread .

Clarissa, I don't quite fit into your "high earning" wage bracket , but I like to think I'm doing ok. I don't work in the city, or in law or finance but I could carry the family comfortably on my salary, something that I'm proud to have achieved.

I wanted to link to this Sheryl Sandberg TEDTalk about why we have too few women leaders. I've always found it useful to watch when I'm having a wobble about work and the family.

I'm considering a career change as my work-life balance has been pretty poor in the past 18 months, but today I've been offered an extra person on my team and the opportunity to drop to 4 days. Am torn, was gearing up to take a pay cut of >50% to retrain and comfortable with it, although i would not be as financially independent as i am, but I was utterly miserable. But it seems as if it could be manageable with this offer, and in truth, I like most of my colleagues.

Dither dither....

To answer your questions, we used nursery when we had 2 children, then switched to a nanny when no. 3 came along. I've worked a combination of 4 days and FT since I became a mum. My priorities have changed, and I'm less concerned with getting to the top of my field now, but I'm still motivated to do the best job I can. It's essential if you have a partner, to make sure they pull their weight.

We also have a cleaner who comes once a week, and my parents live close by, which is lovely as we see them most weeks. I don't ask the grandparents to do any scheduled childcare as I don't want to restrict their lives, but they will always step in if we need ad hoc support. We moved back from the south-east to be close to them and I think it has benefited us, them and the children immeasurably.

Hi Mitchell, firstly congratulations, I hope you are doing well.

Sounds like you are in a similar situation. Nice to hear your Chairs were fairly relaxed. In a funny way, I'm least worried about my Board positions - at least they are fixed dates and times and the pre and post work and ongoing communications can all be done on a fairly flexible time basis. Are you planning to stay in touch on the 4 months off or completely break?

On a very irrelevant and light note, can you recommend any shops for smart business maternity wear?!

novice - I agree, I loved the mantra 'never explain, never apologise'

Zhx3 - the £100k thing sounded so jumped up, sorry! I guess trying to get across that whilst it's not exactly 'money no object' - what are the decisions people make when they have the privilege of all options available. Thanks for the link, great talk.
On your career dilemma, I would say give it 6 - 9 months of the new person and 4 days, then decide if you still want to change careers. If you do it now, you might always wonder if you jumped too soon. Sure you've considered that and it might not be possible. As someone else said - not many decisions are completely irreversible so take it easy!

I have my 12 week scan on Monday. I'm quite worried and feel like I'm tempting fate even thinking about career planning when I don't even know everything is ok. I've never been very maternal or into kids, so it's really surprised me how emotionally invested I am already. Guess that's the hormones doing their job.

OP I'm no fashionista but one thing I'd say about maternity wear is that I found that I was really hot, particularly as I got further along. I'm quite warm bodied normally but I found it was like someone had cranked up the thermostat. Which I mention because I wouldn't recommend you rush out and buy a load of heavy material suits/jackets etc as you may find you just can't wear them comfortably. And in any event until you get huge you can just wear your regular jackets but don't do them up.

Style and beauty boards might be worth posting on for good shops.

Hi There,

I'm in this boat - three pre-schoolers and now working full time.

Lots of people ask how i'm managing it all, and ask my husband how i'm managing. But no-one asks him how he manages to work full time when he has three little ones. The fact that I work full time and have children is not the least bit remarkable - lots of men do it and manage fine.

We lots of help. A full time Nanny, mother's help, gardener, bloke who comes and does stuff on our house and when we needed it an emergency nanny was arranged by an agency in 15 mins. Our parents come over reguarly too.

We like to see the children in the morning and evening so we both make sure we are around for the first hour and last hour of the children's day.

In my office, they have appreciated having as much notice of maternity leave as is possible - and I have told them when I was twelve weeks pregnant. I also told them I would take a year and the first time was able to come back early. Much better to do things this way around than ask for 6 months and then extend mat leave. I don't think the senior people like me taking a year, but I have decided that it is best for our family.

My husband and I aim to parent jointly. He does a lot around the house - all the cooking and ordering food. I am better at all the one-offs so shoes, party gifts. We go out occasionally but not much as we are pretty tired and want to spend our free time with the children.

I feel hugely fortunate to be able to afford great childcare so I can work and not worry about the children. And I am much happier at work than I would be at home.

Hi all - great thread. I worked in banking in the City for 15 years. I have 3 DCs and worked throughout my pregnancies right up to delivery. I personally would encourage even the most high powered career woman to try and enjoy the maternity leave. It goes quickly and people at work never even remember you took the time out. A good nanny is a must. Personally preferred someone that was more than happy to do housework and childcare - who wants to do laundry when you have been at work all day ?? My number one tip is to pay for weekend help - otherwise as a working mum you never get anytime off. Weekends become a drudgery of stacking the dishwasher and making food.
I admit however, having been very very career focused,I just took a break to spend a year with my kids. The one thing I realised is you can't have it all. Your kids do miss out. I was less focused on their homework, tired and irritable in the evenings, glued to my blackberry. I will probably return to work doing something less intense. I lacked balance - something which I think is so important.

Thanks for the comments - I am sure it will be ok and its reassuring to know that there are others out there in the same boat.

I am secretly hoping this all will actually enable me to stop being such a workaholic and invested in (aka stressed) what I do and have more of a balanced life whilst still being able to achieve my goals.

I secretly would have loved to have the option of taking a whole year off but I am the primary earner and maternity pay is crap so 4 months it will be. My husband thinks that I'll be begging to go back then anyway!

Re maternity clothes - Seraphine and Isabella Oliver black stretchy dresses, with some nice statement necklace/jewellery are getting me through (oh and the concealer packed on for when I am not feeling my best!). My office isn't ultra ultra corporate and I usually wear this type of style anyway. I am 5 months and now just popping out so I really don't want to invest too much into maternity wear. And agree with what the poster before - said my jackets still at the moment fit so just wear them unbuttoned.

This is a brilliant post! I'd like to join this club please! I do think that the pressure that comes with a £100k job is quite overwhelming at times when it comes to planning time off.

I am having my annual appraisal next week and have already been told that my only aim this year (although I'm not going on mat leave until the end of June) is to leave my accounts in an organised way so that my MD can pick them up easily (they're not arranging contract cover). It makes me seethe to think how I'm being brushed off. I'm going to go very well prepared with a six month action plan to show what I can still achieve before I go. It really makes me worry that I'm going to find it difficult to get back into the swing of things in the eyes of the board (I'm a director) when I get back.

Clarissa I'd second the PP above - seraphine have lovely clothes, as do Isabella Oliver. The dresses in particular work well when paired with a normal (pre-pregnancy) blazer. I admit that I am wearing slightly lower heels than usual though.

Gin - When I told my boss that I was pregnant I also reiterated that my plan for promotion was still something that I will be able to achieve for the end of this 2014. I have continued to push this in my appraisal and goal setting.

They had also got plans for me to have an executive coach and then dithered as to whether I should wait until after I got back from maternity.
I put my foot down and said that was ridiculous and that if anything it would be best before I went off and while I was going through this life changing event (this is my first) and luckily they saw sense!

I think my phrase to push this all was 'I'm having a baby not a lobotomy so why should I still not want to progress' (def. pregnancy rage moment there!)

One quick question, when do any of you have time to look after yourself? I'm struggling to find time to get a haircut, between working, DD's extra curriculum stuff at weekends and trying to find time to spend time with DD and DH. I never have time to go for a run or exercise, I've gained so much weight.

I hated trying to find smart clothes when I was pregnant. I needed some stuff for big meetings and even an interview, it was all a bit a nightmare

Do you know what, you just won't know how you'll feel. Practical assistance aside, the emotional stuff is far harder to control.

My priorities have shifted and there are times I know DD would benefit from seeing me more, which is hard to process emotionally.

As someone said up thread, something may need to give. You just need to be comfortable with what that means for your family. And I don't think you'll necessarily be able to predict what it will be until you have your baby in your arms.

Now my youngest are teenagers it is really really easy or much esaier to find time to look after myself. When we had 3 under 5 and both worked full time it was very very hard and that applied as much to their father as to me. I mentioned above the weekend trip to the gym to sleep with the babies in the creche - in a sense that was time for myself. With the first 3 I don't remember much time for myself at all.

I have often just used scissors to cut the ends off my hair and dye it myself. In fact I went to the hairdresser on Friday and told him I had no interest in my hair at all and I'd rather read about my subject than think about hair so I suppose hair was never going to be at the top of my list.

All I can say is that most of our lives is not with small children around. there will be decades without them around. Most of us are likely to work full time until we are 70 now in work we adore and is highly paid. So if there are a few hard years in your 30s it is very very much worthwhile to have preserved that career later.

I wouldn't worry about weight too much. Too many women do.

Mitchell, well done. That's just what is needed. We are all the same person working hard enjoying work whether we have children or not and whether male or female and I think you often have to say things to bosses, even things we might think are obvious because they may be used to women who go on a mommy track when they have babies and many of us don't want that.