High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

I found the NCT ones useful for friendship groups. It didn't last but it was useful for the time off during maternity. Even if you aren't going off for long, it was useful to have people to chat to re 'constant crying, pooing'. I don't know about you but I can't remember what it's like anymore and my youngest is only 3! So even if you have friends who have young kids I found it useful to have people who have just given birth within weeks of you!

I didn't do the NHS one... People who did it found it useless... I didn't do it for sheer lack of time!

I'm only doing the NCT ones - for the reasons stated above, mainly to meet women who are having babies around the same time etc as I have very few friends who have children

clarissaG am of the same opinion as you - what ever will happen will happen so really wasn't keen on doing the NHS ones as well as the NCT ones, to tbh I feel like I'm a bit too busy to commit too much time sitting around talking about it all after all its not going to stop the inevitable happening!

Yes with the NCT you are really paying for the email list! Especially if you are used to working full-time in London with no family or friends at home nearby, it is a lifesaver to have a ready-made group to meet with for coffee close to home, especially in the early days when even getting out of the house is daunting.

I found the NCT classes super-depressing (because I was having a very difficult and complicated pregnancy so may experience was totally different) and have little in common with the other mothers really, but we have stayed in touch and pooled info at the various stages (e.g. choosing nurseries, nannies etc).

A class on the realities of looking after/being at home with a tiny baby would be MUCH more useful, especially if it was targeted at women who are used to working hard to help them think through the challenges of the change in pace and the to encourage them to discuss all the associated issues with their husbands/partners in advance.

Re: labour, everything they cover in an NCT class you can learn from a good book/a website in a couple of hours. On the other hand, although nothing was news to me, a lot of it was news to DH so in that sense maybe it was useful (though my word he really hated those classes!). If they had a "pay just for the email list of women due at the same time in a mile radius" option I'm sure they would make an absolute fortune! I would happily have paid double for that with the added bonus of skipping the silly classes.

I found the NCT classes useful. When I had our first children none of our friends was having children so it meant at least I had someone to talk to about things although I certainly was not the sort of person who was looking for "new friends" with whom one would only have in common that you each had a baby. I liked going. My mother went too. They have some good class leaders.

I never ever found them suggesting birth would always be simple. They spent lots of time explaining all the various possibilities.

the NCT class I went to was really funny - not intentionally - because there was a really high powered couple there - both lawyers - and the dh couldn't get the hang of the possibility that the labour and birth process might not go to plan. The NCT counsellor running the course was explaining about birthing plans where you write down what you want to happen - he picked on this as being a legally enforceable contract and got more and more irritated as she was unable to tell him whether his course of legal action was against the staff or the hospital if they failed to follow the birth plan as written.

He really didn't get the point and it was hilarious as he kept on trying to produce case law and precedent to support his legal argument - the poor NCT lady just didn't know what to do. His final conclusion was that the birth plan was clearly not worth the paper it was written on. And after this couple left the NCT lady told the rest of us that she was a midwife and there was no way she would want to take on the risk of delivering their baby - she was certain that something would not satisfy them and had no wish to be sued.

I didn't do the NCT class as I had independent midwives who talked me through birth choices, breastfeeding and post natal stuff so didn't find the need to pay to go to NCT class just for the list of mums nearby. (Didn't really fancy evening classes!) As someone said those information can be found in books and websites quite easily. If you are after finding mummy friends have you looked at your local internet forum? I live near East Dulwich and found the forum really good. I met lots of mums who gave birth within 3 months of each other - we met for coffee once a week while we were on mat leave. The number of us going for coffee gradually drops as people went back to work, but I did make some friends and we still meet up occasionally.

Actually I felt really pleased I socialised with no mothers after birth but that's probablyu just my personality. I never thought I was wrong in how I was breastfeeding the babies or dealing with them as no one else I knew had babies at the time so I could just do it all my way without worrying about others and the last thing I needed was someone's support or views (as I suppose I was so sure my instinct was 100% right and what I'd read). That is very different from some people who feel bad at being a mother or unsure. I felt I knew it all and I knew best and lucky our mother was sensible enough not to interfere or visit too quickly after birth either. Not the way everyone does it but it worked very well for me as I obviously think I am brilliant at babies etc as much as my work..... laughing as I type.... nothing wrong with self confidence in women of course.

I enjoyed the NCT classes and would recommend them. Yes, you can get the information from a book or online. But we're all so busy and our focus tends to be on getting everything done before the baby arrives - so it is nice to have a few dedicated hours for thinking about the birth experience and baby.

Our classes were held over 2 Saturdays and a Wednesday. One Saturday was on the birth (including CS), the Wednesday was on feeding (and both BF and FF was discussed) and the second Saturday was on life with a new baby - we talked about fears, what the days would entail and practised changing nappies and bathing dolls.

I had no local friends at that point. They were all through work or spread around the country. After babies, it is less tempting to spend every weekend away from home. I really valued meeting people locally. They are interesting (the ones I kept in touch with anyway) - some similar professionally but also a variety of fields eg one of my NCT friends is the CEO of a charity.

I also agree that it is really really useful knowing people you can call on for help - my NCT friends looked after DS when I went into labour at midnight. My mum lives 4hrs drive away so they covered whilst she drove here. Otherwise I would have had to be on my own.

Ice is right re NCT support. I went along to it even though I was due a c-section as I had placenta praevia. I was fine with it. In the end, although everyone were going to have a natural birth with no pain relief (?!!) half of them had emergency c-sections. Although everyone said they were going to breast feed, not all of them did, and I wad the one who breast fed the longest (I went in there thinking meh, no need for all that stress!). For 2 years!! (But that's another thread!! ).

I didn't go when I had baby 2.. Primarily because we had no time. No family around to look after ds and by then, we knew quite a fee families even though I went back to work after 6 months. Even now 6 years later, we bump into people at swimming, or gym or ballet... Have a brief chat, say hello. We rekindled friendships at the school gate (I have a photo from post natal baby group aged 3 months or so.. And about 4 of them are in the same school as us!).

They won't be solid friendships... I don't ring them for a natter (I don't do these things anymore!)... But they are fine for just being friends if you get what I mean. They will and have done a spot of picking up children... Babysitting, etc. brilliant!

My nct group did talk about the cycle of intervention and how one thing can lead to another and before you know it you are having a c-section. I don't really get the Que sera sera pov. You wouldn't go into an important meeting at work without preparing for it? Of course a birth plan is not a contract but I do think being aware if the options and consequences is a good idea.

I appreciated my nct group friends post birth and as company pre birth but we didn't really keep in touch after we were all back at work or not gone back. Otoh I know plenty of mums who still see their nct friends once a month, but they are sahm or part time workers. Once I was back full time meet ups on Friday afternoons no longer worked.

How are the high earning mothers doing? All well here, working hard, but life is good. Glad to see CityFathers met last week and at last we seem to be acknowledging the family responsibilities of high earning fathers as well as mothers (many of which fathers have busy high earning wives too and share responsibilities fairly with them).

Hi - hope you are all busy and working hard. Thought this survey might be of interest...

survey

Hello - I wondered where this thread had gone!

I am still busy and working hard - though the extreme craziness of the start of the year has eased off for now.

I am finding home is getting so much easier as DD has turned 2. She is just way more portable and used to the shifts around with nanny and childcare. So of course now we are trying for no. 2 as life with one is just too easy!

I am thinking about getting a home pa, someone on the thread mentioned it. What kind of jobs do you get them to do?

What a great thread!!! It has given me so much strength to know this is all doable and not abnormal or selfish as some people tend to make me feel:) I have 2 DCs 3 years and 4M both are FT in nursery with a PT pick up nanny as support. Was generally concerned about primary school hours and holidays (plus think Id love to have a 3rd) but after reading all your messages know that everything will just be fine and can be worked out- thank you all. Will revisit this thread many times in the future hope it will stay 'alive'

I love this thread too. I don't 'qualify' - only on £65k - but aspiring to be high performing/high earning and am FT working parent. Due to have my second DC in November and when I return to work, DH will stop working and be a full time SAHD to allow me to concentrate on my career. So am taking tips from you lot!

Hi ladies

I've just finished reading this whole thread and found it really helpful and inspiring. I am a lawyer (sole legal counsel for a company of about 350) and currently 6 months' pregnant with my first child. I'm also job hunting as my boss' reaction to my pregnancy and plans for maternity leave have not been ideal - they've been very resistant to me continuing to have involvement/work while on mat leave, there's pressure to cut heads and my job has been out-sourced to a law firm for maternity cover (which is always a dead give-away that you're not going to have one to come back to, in my opinion! - I've seen it happen before). I think they've assumed that I will want to be mummy-tracked after I have the baby (and have seen it as an opportunity to restructure)where in reality I'm quite the opposite - I definitely want to keep my career going full-time or close to.

It's probably time to look for new opportunities anyway as have been here 4 years and there's no room for progression (am on the executive board but I don't see any opportunity to move to a commercial role in this business). I have my eye on a couple of roles, mainly in the commercial side of the area I'm already family with. In the unlikely event I get a job offer at 7 months pregnant (!) I'd love to hear how you have all made it work with a short maternity leave (I'm thinking 4 months would be the maximum I could manage: if I got a job offer in October in the year, I have ELCS scheduled for late November that would mean a March start date). Is it doable? I just feel I'm not going to want to be at home with a baby for a long period - I can barely go on holiday for a week without getting a bit antsy!

Congrats on the pregnancy Gennz hopefully somebody will be along to share their experience.

I have posted a couple of times and lurked a lot on this thread. Not quite in the same earning bracket but have aspirations etc.

I saw this on Forbes about how high-performing women & men are treated differently in appraisals and thought I'd share on here. The author reviewed a number of appraisals in the tech sector.

The women received much more negative feedback than then men, including the use of the word 'abrasive' for a number of the women. A bit like the whole 'bossy girls' 'assertive boys' issue. It is very depressing. :(

I saw that one too, Margot.

Gennz, wouldn't you be better going back to your current role after a short maternity leave and then job hunting? You'd still have to give notice on your current job and pay back any enhanced maternity pay.

There's no enhanced mat pay (I'm outside the UK). Statutory paid parental leave only runs for 14 weeks and is a tiny fraction of what I'd usually earn so not really sufficient to influence a decision either way. I'm signed off for 9 months so will definitely be job hunting during that time - I've identified a couple of opportunities that I'm investigating now, with a view to a March start date - otherwise I'll just go on mat leave and pick up the search next year (not much gets done here recruitment wise over Dec/Jan). DH and I have talked about him taking some parental leave & then getting a nanny when the baby is 6/7 months old, which might make it more workable.

Margo the assertive/aggressive thing has definitely been my experience. It's very annoying. The more senior you get, the more you realise there are some massively backwards & outmoded attitudes out there. I've tried to employ the Tina Fey "over, up, around" technique but sometimes I think it needs to be called out for what it is - which is incredibly difficult when you have senior, 60+ y.o men calling the shots who are convinced that their views are correct.

Hello all. I started writing on this thread when preg, my DC2 is now 6mo and I am about to return to work FT.

I had a good 'back to work' chat with my boss the other day - basically I said I wasn't planning on stepping back - the opposite. I said that my time had become more precious to me than ever so I would need to be challenged, given opportunities etc. That I needed to feel I had real purpose in being at work and achieving things or I would be looking at opportunities outside the firm. He said it was music to his ears and he was delighted to be having me back and keen to crack on. He mentioned several initiatives I can get involved with. I'm feeling pretty positive right now.

I was inspired by this thread, the Lean In mentality and book, posts by various mners (Xenia/Laura for one but also loads on this thread). I am not ashamed to want to have a career AND be a mum, nor do I feel the need to pretend I 'would be a SAHM if I could'. And I will be doing my best to refuse to feel guilty. Guilt is such a waste of feeling and energy.

I'm sorry to see that this thread has gone rather quiet - I found it really interesting! If anyone spots anything interesting please post it here - or any other threads that are inspiring and positive for WOHM - especially those with senior positions.

Hi, I love this post as well. I am a FT lawyer. Have two children - 4 and 16 months and took short mat leaves with both of them and returned full-time immediately after each.

I am a huge fan of the lean-in philosophy. I am contemplating a move back into legal private practice which would be a very scary move for me. I am currently inhouse and am feeling like I need to be stretched a bit more and need more challenging work. However, I am terrified of being overwhelmed by work and the hours being too long and difficult.

Anyway, please keep posting. Sometimes I find myself questioning whether I should be at home more, less focused on my career. Whether I should be leaning out instead of leaning in. It's quite a struggle! However, at the end of the day I can only be true to myself and I have always had a burning ambition to climb the career ladder and it didn't change at all once I had children.

I liked this interview last week in Management Today with Janvi Patel, founder of law firm Halebury. Her life sounds crazy busy, but I liked this quote in particular (esp the bit about men looking after themselves, how true!) and made me think of this thread:

"So three or four times a week I take some alone time, usually by working out, or yoga or the occasional manicure or facial. It’s something I learnt from watching my husband take time to do what he needs to; I think men are better at taking care of themselves and making space for themselves. I don’t feel guilty about it, I need it, I go crazy without it and as my friends tells me ‘a happy mum is better than a perfect mum’"