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High earning mothers

698 replies

ClarissaG · 26/01/2014 17:29

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

OP posts:
SarahAnderson · 06/02/2014 23:53

Marking my place...

BecauseIsaidS0 · 07/02/2014 04:27

Hello ladies,

I'm not a mum yet but this conversation is really timely for me since I just got married and would love to pop one out although age and hormones are not cooperating.

Last year I worked my backside off turning an underperforming team around and then I dug my heels in and told my manager I was exhausted. I have a very intensive morning yoga practice so I was getting up at 4:30am to do that before going in to work and doing 10+ hours.

So I negotiated a lesser role but part time (25 hours a week) that still keeps me in the high earners club. I'm now nowhere as tired, but...I'm not really enjoying it. I don't have the resources to deliver what I'm aiming for, my very immature team think that because I'm not there all the time I don't know what they are up to (or rather, not up to) and I realized that, well, even though I complain a lot about my job I actually get a kick out of over delivering.

So I'm at a crossroads - thought my part time role would make it easier to get pregnant (I'm not and we've been trying for a while), thought I'd be less stressed but I'm frustrated, have fantasies of ditching it and devoting myself to yoga but like bringing good money in...why can't I have it all?!?

Sorry if this became a bit of an aimless rant, I don't really have good role models at work (I'm the most senior woman in my group and I'm not even that senior!) and right now I feel stuck.

LauraBridges · 07/02/2014 08:40

Because, who knows what is best? I certainly find whenever I do bikram yoga I feel so very much better although I don't often make the time for it. Good luck with getting pregnant.

Someone asked me about when children reach school age. I have never understood why people find that harder. The hardest phase is being woken up night after night by babies and toddlers. I suppose in our case with 2 younger ones once the oldest was at full time school our nanny collected her and looked after her in the holidays. Also from age 5 our oldest took the school coach to her school (Haberdashers) which had a lovely system of older girls looking after the youngest. She also did 2 weeks of school daily summer camp (which was great and it even introduced her to her teenage passion for showjumping as there was ridnig on it which I don't think she would ever have done had she not done that summer camp at her school) and when she had 2 weeks half term which none of the others had in October she spent a week with grandparents in Yorkshire.

When our third went to full time school I think about then our nanny left (she had her third baby in about 4 years - the nanny). We hired someone then n Australian (not live in - I like my privacy) who used to do taking to school, then housework and washing and then school collection and she also did driving to parties on Saturday afternoons for the children for a bit when they would often be at different places at the same time and the parties seemed to be 30 minutes drive away sometimes and that really helped. More recently with the younger two for a time they went into before and after school club if it was a day when I was not around (their prep school was at the end of our road so in due course they just walked themselves there) and then someone who used to help us on Sunday mornings did the after school collection 3 - 6pm as she had a series of part time hours jobs and baby sitting with various people so it fitted in with her. She also was happy to do full time in holidays although by then I was often working from home but even so until children are quite old they need someone there who isn't in the house working but giving them attention. It certainly wasn't harder once they went to school. It's dead easy now with teenagers. The difficult few years are very very short in the context of a long working life.

HabitualLurker · 07/02/2014 08:59

Great thread!

This has been great reading and given me much food for thought.

My situation is slightly different to most of those here. I'm not an amazingly high earner, but probably could be if I made the decision to get on the promotion track. I'm also the sole earner and my partner is SAHD, so probably don't have to juggle in the same way most on this thread do.

I do really enjoy my job - it's a very technical one, closely related to my degree and passion, but I've been doing it a long time now, and haven't progressed all that much. In order to do that I need to make the leap from being a doer to a manager, and I've been dithering for quite a while about that. My main worry is that I'll be swapping something I enjoy for something that I'd both find very stressful and, quite frankly, be rubbish at. On the other hand, I can't languish forever. How do you make the leap up to the higher track? I fear I really have to want it, and that I don't. But then I see less-deserving people (ahem, men) being promoted and feel quite angry. What to do.

And senior women at my organisation are sadly far and few. As far as I know there are only 2 female SVPs, one of whom is childless. Obviously most of the senior men have families. The organisation is spread over several continents and can involve long days, travel and unsociable hours.

BecauseISaidSo I had a part-time stint when I came back from maternity leave and found it pretty difficult. Expectations were set at a full-time levels and I was getting very frustrated at not being able to achieve as much as I wanted. I'm finding it a lot easier to be full time I'm afraid. But PP have written about being able to make part-time roles work.

BecauseIsaidS0 · 07/02/2014 09:05

squirrel, I also work in a very technical field and had the same concerns as you about moving into management. Then, when I made the transition, I absolutely loved it. I love being able to set the direction for my team, and even though I accept and listen to opinions, at the end of the day if I disagree with them I get to make the call. I have very strong ideas about how to solve the problems we face and so far it has been a huge satisfaction to watch them succeed. I also get a kick out of helping my people get promotions, pay rises, and succeed. Yes, dealing with people rather than technical details can be tricky, but I like it, much to my surprise.

HabitualLurker · 07/02/2014 09:22

BecauseIsaidSO I'm assuming that was for me? (and even if not, it does respond to my question, so I'll take it anyway!).

Was your move to management motivated by the desire for a new challenge? Or better money? Or status? Or a combination of all? I'm finding it really hard to get my head and heart to agree (head says promotion, heart says waa). But actually parenthood is giving me a bit of a kick up the bum. I feel that if I'm going to be at work full time anyway, I may as well go that little bit further for the extra reward.

My fear is that once I try to make that step up it's hard to come back down again if I discover I don't like it after all. And that I'll have even less time for myself than I do now.

littleredsquirrel · 07/02/2014 09:24

I don't think it was for me. My move to management was sitting managing myself!

NK5BM3 · 07/02/2014 09:24

Hello! We got to Friday again! Smile

Thanks for all the positive encouragement earlier in the week when I was seriously questioning my abilities. I've had several successful meetings... People want to see strategy but they also want direction and encouragement. So I'm working on that.

Issue is I have many parts to my job (who doesn't!) so I not only have people who I need to account to but also others who need direction etc. I'm hoping that with hitting some of the targets I will demonstrate ability and then be given more resources. This thing I'm doing is great but requires being mrs incredible at the moment (doing a million things with only two hands).

Good weekend all.

NK5BM3 · 07/02/2014 09:29

Hi habitual
I've just been promoted. To a senior managerial role. It's a steep learning curve but since getting to a comfortable position at work (including kids sleeping through most nights even though they don't go down till 9 whereas their friends go at 7/8!) having achieved all my goals etc, it was time to step up.

I realised in recent months that I really didn't like the other traditional route of promotion because I knew I couldn't and didn't want it. So I decided this was what I could and would excel in.

It was a bit more money. It would place me on a promotion scale which would suit me (so a few more years and another promotion etc) but importantly I can hopefully direct and change things as I want. No point complaining about how crap management is when you can possibly influence it.

What I hate most at my work place is people complaining about mgt this and that, and yet when asked to step up, people say 'no thank you!!' So I decided to step up. Grin

BecauseIsaidS0 · 07/02/2014 09:46

Sorry, yes Habitual, it was for you and I got all confused! My move to management just kind of happened - I started working in a team that was a mess, I knew from past experience what would work so I started making suggestions, then one day my boss called me and told me I was running the team from there on.

BusinessUnusual · 09/02/2014 19:58

Well done on the good meetings NK

LauraBridges · 10/02/2014 15:36

Thanks for the link which just proves what most of us know sadly that if you work part time or don't lean in and work less hard than others you do worse. I don't think this surprises or shocks anyone really although plenty of women start to work for themselves and double their pay and own and run a business and that can be a much better alternative - out earning the men, owning, not being a PAYE slave etc.

momb · 10/02/2014 15:46

I couldn't do it. I just couldn't cope with the working hours and the responsibility of all the planning for my children (my ex wasn't particularly helpful in this regard and the au pair/nanny/cleaner needed more guidance than I could cope with alone).
I had to step off the ladder and into a consultancy role. I earn less than before but am more able to control my own hours. I'm still in a professional position, but one where most of the time the hours are such that I can put my children to bed.
I actually feel sometimes that I let the side down, that my daughters would benefit more in the long run from a more dynamic role model, but I just couldn't keep the balls in the air.

LauraBridges · 10/02/2014 16:50

Of course you haven't let the side down. We all do our best. perhaps advise the children to marry partners who are feminists and do children/cleaning etc 50.50 so the next generation does not suffer in the same way. 29 years ago my children's father interviewed nannies so I do not see why men in 2014 cannot be equally as involved.

Sheissmallandveryspidery · 10/02/2014 17:28

Interesting link thanks for posting.

I feel a bit like you momb.

I posted earlier in the thread saying how I'm struggling to adjust after going back after my 2nd DC. I do 4d and even with a nanny I am really struggling to mentally deal with the demands of my very demanding job and the demands of two small people, household mgt and nanny mgt. H does do a good share of jobs but I do the core stuff (including the cleaning on my day off as we cannot afford cleaner and a nanny). It's the lack of headspace and multiple demands for my attention that I find so hugely overwhelming at the moment. I am not a nice person as a result.

I wondered if anyone felt like this and got over it after adjusting to working with two kids??

Right now I am depressed and at my worst when I am working and being a parent. I can handle the parenting bit (proved during recent wk off to cover nanny) but both together i struggle

I have no idea where to go from here. Do I put my all into work and hope the depression is managed by meds and cbt or step down to a lesser role and probably screw up my chances of career at this company.

I get a buzz out of getting my job done well so I think it's more complex than assuming a lesser job will make me happy.

LauraBridges · 10/02/2014 18:34

I suspect doing a lesser job won't make you happier and could make you more depressed. I haven't had depression so not really qualified to comment.

Would the answer be to go to 5 days a week and then on Saturday you do some cleaning and on Sunday your husband just as much cleaning? At the moment you get lumbered with the dull cleaning stuff because you have the 4 days a week job.

BusinessUnusual · 10/02/2014 19:25

I'd definitely start with getting your H to do more for a while and see if that helps.

oscarwilde · 10/02/2014 20:14

Sheis - I'd work 5 days and get a cleaner in your shoes. You are probably cramming a full time job into 4 days anyway. I know a few people who have negotiated a 9 day fortnight (on full pay) and that works well too if you can stay late a few evening.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 10/02/2014 20:18

I have been reading this with interest but wasn't sure that I had much to add - not least because I made different choices to many of you.

However Habitual's comment made me think maybe I do have something to say.

I am a "techie". A bit over four years ago I realised that my only real promotion is to move to be more of a manager (currently on mat leave but my work is currently 80:20 techie:manager at the moment - promotion would mean at least 60% management. After much thought I realised I didn't want this. Around that time I also got pregnant with dd. As I'm not trying to get promotion I took the time I wanted for maternity leave (the full year) and went back part time. Yes - I'm on the mummy track but I don't much care.

It is hard seeing people (men) less talented than me getting promoted to be more senior than me but I have also seen quite a few of them go in the annual reshuffle / redundancy exercise. (Each of which is definitely the last - until the next!)

Interestingly it has started to occur to our company that there should be decent roles for technically brilliant people and it has started to bring in a sort of "techie track". I am tempted but I suspect the techie track would be even harder to get off than the mummy track.

Suzietwo · 10/02/2014 21:12

I like the theory of this thread and hope you continue. Mostly to support women struggling to make decisions and seeking advice. Like a mentoring thread really.

I probably won't post as I went self employed after my first child was born so many of the things covered by the posts so far aren't relevant to me. I will be cheering from the sidelines though!

Bumblebzz · 11/02/2014 12:13

This thread has been a great read, it's a topic very close to my heart. I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention of the new shared maternity leave legislation, as personally I find it very exciting that role-models which can be/have been set during that initial maternity leave period (i.e. mother as main childcarer/domestic) will hopefully slowly be changed when more fathers take some proper parental leave.

Personally, whilst I earn (just) over 100k, working approx 4.5 days a week, I certainly do not classify myself as a "power-mum" or a high flier. I earned significantly more (some years up to twice my current income) before I had my child. Looking back, it's clear to me now that I have been "mummy-tracked", though (possible warning to new mothers here) at the time it was not obvious to me, it happened almost by stealth and there was never open reference to it happening. However, I personally place a lot of value (not monetary, but unmistakenly a real value nonetheless) on other aspects of my employment such as flexibility. I have worked on a part-time basis over the past 4 years or so (3 day week, then 4 day week, now 4.5 day week, with 1 or 2 days working from home). I now realise that this pattern of working is sadly still not seen as compatible with promotion track/high flying, and whilst it does sometimes grate me to see other men/women soar up the career ladder with no more innate ability than I have, clearly what they do offer is the willingness to work consistently long hours by prioritising work above all else. I don't want to do this, my child is now old enough to tell me to my face that she prefers it when I pick her up from school instead of our (lovely) nanny, and she prefers it when I can drop her to school instead of her going to breakfast club. So I have a pretty good situation where I can do those things a few times in the week, whilst still earning a very decent wage and doing interesting work. Yes I could earn far more but for what? There is very little time to spend money when you're working 100 hours a week.Before I know it my child won't even want to hold my hand, and that might be a good time to ramp up again. or maybe not, as 4.5 days a week in my industry is still at least 45 hours a week, and frankly, I'm exhausted enough as it is!

If I had a wish it would be that working fathers took more flexibility, that would even out the score far quicker than trying to change things further for women. Imagine if your male colleagues/clients/bosses worked 4 day weeks, or took 6 months shared mat leave, wouldn't that be refreshing? My DH would love to do all of the above (actually he'd love to be a house husband, and I would love him to do that do as he is far better round the house than me, but we can't afford it), but in his industry it is still relatively unheard of for working fathers to do any of those. He equates asking for a 4 day week as the same as handing in his notice. Lots has been done to improve work/life balance for women, but sadly very little has changed for men and I think that until it does, it will be rare to find a dual-income career couple who as a family, can honestly say they "have it all" or whatever comes close to that.

jaffajiffy · 11/02/2014 13:35

I haven't thought this through very well and I'm in danger of falling into the 'we need men to make the changes' minefield, but I do think we need partners to take on more childcare and I hope it starts to happen by law if necessary (not sure how lone parents would work... Told you I hadn't thought it through). We won't see changes to the mummy track until parenting is shouldered by the men too. Having said that, my o-so-progressive DH always said he would do a year's childcare after I'd done mine, but he then took a punt on a job, got it, loves it, and sheepishly doesn't want to give it up. I support him in keeping it because he would lose the job and he wouldn't be able to find a similar one. So now I'm interviewing nannies.

LauraBridges · 11/02/2014 14:54

So the question how come some of us on the thread now and decades ago have/had men who did 50% and others don't? Is it simply lucky?Is it that those men were brought up by feminist mothers who worked so they do not make assumptions that only women do housework,organise childcare? Is it firmness of the women - I would not for one day, nor would my daughters nor would my mother have ever tolerated a sexist man - he would have been out on his ear in 2 seconds. I find it really hard to understand how strong clever women tolerate sexism in their men? Why? Is it caused by the very long maternity leaves which seem to be the norm these days - to they in essence institutionalise sexism in marriage and gender biased roles whilst pretending to be good for women - are they really a ball and chain, a poisoned chalice.

In the Bumble example above why if the husband wants to be a househusband is that not the case? Is it because the wife earns a lot less than the husband? Is it all just about women tending to marry men who earn a lot more even if the woman herself earns more and so when decisions to stay home are taken the lower earner is mommy or part time tracked?

Gatorade · 11/02/2014 15:35

I think it's a combination of all of those things Laura. If I look at my DH he does at least 50% of childcare/arranging housekeeping/nannies/childrens activities despite working full time whilst I work part time (even now whilst I'm on maternity leave).

His parents are fantastic role models, they equally ran a family business and shared household and childcare duties so this is normal for him. He feels secure in the work place (well as secure as one can) and is proactive about requesting to flex his work pattern to fit in with family life. I earn significantly less than him (I only just 'qualify' to be on this thread!) but at no point has he ever made me feel like my job and life balance is less important.

I was lucky to end up in this position but I honestly believe a lot of it is down to his fantastic mother. I do however agree that I wouldn't have it any other way, so maybe I chose my luck if that makes sense!

If I look at friends and peers there seems to be a similar trend but this is of course all anecdotal.