Childcare costs are incredible, how do so many women afford to work

[Zealey]

Hi, I'm sure many people have asked this question before, but I've just seen a piece on the BBC News about how childcare costs are often thousands of pounds a month for multiple kids.
Here in London my local nursery charges £750 per child per month. Considering many return to work mums will be typically part-time and in low paid jobs, HOW does ANY make it pay? Surely not every mum in London is on £40k+ a year.
I'm sincerely curious.
Thanks.

callmemrs - It wouldnt work to put wages up. Most childcarers are on minimum wage or thereabouts fees would be a lot more expensive if their wages went up.

We were paying £1500 per month for twins full time before I chopped my hours, only because my company is a lot easier to deal with than his. We still pay £640 per month for 3 days a week which includes their free hours too and this is NW Herts. I am lucky in that the lower salary (mine) has always covered the cost of the nursery plus more leaving his salary for everything else. (even though it's all in the same account). It is worth it for my sanity and theirs. I just can't believe how much we must have squandered before kids though.

Hmm. Thanks xenia and rita. We may have to think again about our childcare options then...

If anyone wants to read the survey results from the Daycare Trust, then it's available here (pdf).

For anyone newish to Mumsnet, you will find that the Childminders/Nannies/AuPairs section of Mumsnet Talk has lots of useful information about various kinds of childcare. It can be hard to compare the cost between different types of care, until you have an idea of all the costs that are likely to be involved. I suggest any comparison is made over a 1 year period rather than monthly/weekly/hourly as that will give you a better comparison in my view as it would include you taking holiday and days the childcare provider is shut.

Full time childcare where I live is £1200 per month, we wouldn't be entitled to any tax credits. If I worked we would be making a loss after childcare.

The trouble with the state funded 15 hours is it pretty useless if you work normal hours as usually it is in school nursery from 9-11.30 or 1.30 to 3 or whatever and you have the problem of who picks up drops off etc. My DD still had to have private day nursery who charge a full day even though she was out for 2.5 hours a day at school nursery. So was no better off.

If you had a job that fitted those hours it would work. You can get the free hours at the private nursery though which worked out at a saving of about £200 a month I think. This doesn't kick in until they are 3 in my area though. The post code next to mine give it at 2 though as it is a 'deprived area' apparently.

Child care vouchers are OK in that they save you tax but doesn't pay for much and you don't really notice any benefit.

I used to get child tax benefit but when they changed the threshold it stopped. It was about £90pm and really helped.

I have thought about stopping work but once DS goes to school in about 2 years I think I would struggle to get back into any kind of comparable job. Work won't give me a career break either so I am kind of stuck. We bring home over £45 thou a year between us but pay around £900 in childcare a month. With travel costs etc really feel the skintest I ever have. The only thing on the horizon is when DS starts school and we only have wraparound care to pay for. Don't want to wish his childhood away though!

Nursery is £1450 a month for us F/T. If we have another child it will not make financial sense for me to go back to work. They don't make it easy for women to get back to work when it costs that much to put your child in childcare.

I'm in the North West and my DDs nursery is £63 a day. I work 3 days, by the time we have paid for nursery, my petrol & parking, after school for my 2 other children (twins) who are at school, there isn't much left. But, we need my income and in the long run, we will be much better off for me having continued to work.

We've paid for the twins, and then Number 3, so we've been paying nursery for almost 6 years now with about a 6 month break (when twins had started school and I was still on maternity leave with Number 3). We're not entitled to tax credits, the "free" hours is a complete myth where private nurseries are concerned, but we always knew these would be the "lean" years.

We pay nearly £1300 a month for one full time nursery place (south east). We don't get tax credits. We can manage it but are on a tight budget with nothing left over at the end of the month.

We would not be able to pay for a second nursery place if we had another DC, BUT if my DH (who happens to be the lowest earner of the two of us at the moment) were to give up work and be a SAHD, then we could immediately afford to have another child. Surely that isn't right?

I earn 7k and pay 5k a year in childcare...

So what do you expect OP? Free childcare? You put children in the world and the nursery staff, nannies and childminders should volunteer to look after your little darlings for free because oh! they are so lovely aren't they? And if they charge you for meals you will probably moan too.

If it wasn't for DP staying at home one day during the week and the help from my parents, it wouldn't be worth my going back to work. It wold cost us and we're struggling as it is.

Am now a single income family on 22k before tax. I pay out 10.k in childcare.

I would be better off not working - in the short term. In the future my childcare costs will decrease and potentially I can go ft although that would be a massive pressure.

I have a job that is very important to me and I would never be able to return to it if I stopped working. So I take the hit, eased somewhat by childtax credit - but from April that payment will nosedive.

sississy - that's a bit harsh isn't it? I really don't think the OP was saying that at all! I think if you don't know how much childcare costs it is a real shock to people.

The issue isn't really how much childcare costs though tbh, as we all want quality care for our children. The issue for me is the fact that if you work and have to pay for childcare, unless you are earn alot of money, it is often hardly worth working. It disincentives people. For me, I choose to work rather than stay at home now mainly because I know if I took time out when the children were both in full time school I would struggle to find a job in my line of work.

It has always puzzled me why people think childcare should come cheap. Done properly it is hard work and relentless. Shouldn't people be prepared to pay top dollar for something as precious as their children to be looked after properly. (pay peanuts get monkeys....)

The government should look to giving families with a stay at home parent some tax breaks/incentives (IMO)

Childcare should be subsidised.

It's fine to say "you should pay top dollar" but when you're paying rent, food and bills too there isn't the money to spare.

There was a good Panaorama programme on this issue earlier this evening. I assume it will be on iPlayer later.

Fact is that places like Norway have heavily subsidised very good quality childcare available for every child from age 1. They can only do this because Norway has high taxes, high oil revenue and a relatively small population.

In my view, each parent should be given a £5k tax allowance for each child on top of a £10k personal tax allowance that would mean a family of 2 parents and 2 children could earn £30k before paying tax. Then allow parents to choose how they want to spend the money.

As more and more wages are pushed down to minimum wage it will become more and more imposisble for two parents to work.

Hi there,

Am paying £975 per month for dd and due in aug with baby#2 in London. I'm hoping to return to work p/t maybe four days a week but one at home so grandparents can help with childcare. Otherwise almost 2k per month is extortionate and a significant dent in my salary!

Although purr finances are shared, I consider the cost to come from my salary as if I was at home we wouldn't pay it. Although if I was / become a sahm I would still keep dd in nursery 2-3 days a week for her independence.

I just started using childcare vouchers (so I can pay for nursery pre tax) but not sure how helpful it Is yet.

nellyjelly why on earth are you using a different preschool for the free 15 hours? It's the stupidest thing I've heard. A lot of private day care nurseries that opens 8-6 are part of the scheme. They will deduct the funded hours off your normal bills. Obviously spread over 52 weeks, and food isn't covered.

And school nurseries and private nurseries all cover the same early year cirriculum. Also school nurseries are on the same admission criteria as the school itself. Whether your LO went to the school nursery means zilch to the LEA.

My childminder costs £70 a day which would work out as around £1500 a month if they had a fulltime place for DS. I am also in London and have not once been given a quote as low as £750.

"Childcare is a direct result of working" No it isn't, childcare is a direct result of choosing to have children but needing or wanting to work.

I work but don't pay childcare (children are 24 and 26) so childcare is not a direct result of work.

When they were small when DH worked nights I worked days. When he worked midweek I dis weekends and vice versa. Hell on earth until youngest went to school (no such thing as tax credits, free nursery his Mum had dementia and his Dad looked after her both my parents were in FT work so no family support either) but we both maintained our "careers" and supported DD through uni. DS got job straight from school, own house and new car. Both DCs has good relationships with us and their respective other halves so it didn't do them any harm either emotionally or educationally for both parents to work full time.

Mrsbojangles
It is entirely possible yoursil prefers working to being with smallchildren.
Some people just are not suited to parenting through the early years as in they get their identity from their jobs so would rather swap their entire
Pay for someone else to do it.
I don,t think the op is being sexist just making a pragmatic calculation....as in child care costs comes from the mother,s wage meaning if you do the sums and that cost almost cancels out the mother,s wage, what is the point?

No, childcare is not a direct 'result' of working. But it is a cost directly incurred through working for any parents who are working At the same time as eachother while they have dependent children. (unless of course you use relatives to be unpaid childminders which is hardly fair )

I am not suggesting childcare should be free, or even subsidised. Personally I think it's fair enough to pay a large amount to those looking after our children- its a very important job. I disagree with the tax credits system anyway- its simply created a situation where people are dis incentivised to earn over the threshold.

What I do object to is people having to pay the person who is looking after their children out of taxed income, only for that person to be taxed on what you've paid them too

We need people to have children. Not masses of them- but we need people to reproduce. And we need working parents- they contribute to the economy through tax and create employment for childcarers

I didn't agree with this "Although purr finances are shared, I consider the cost to come from my salary as if I was at home we wouldn't pay it". Why would the same not apply to a man? There should be no assumption women don't work and men do. Men pay for childcare. If they dont' don't marry them. Make sure you avoid the sexist men who think only women need to think about childcare. if you earn 10x what your husband does I did I bet my bottom dollar chidlcare would not be seen as your cost and even if both parents earn about the same or one earns less both need to arrange childcare in order to work.

Now some man might have thought I will marry a girl who was brought up in a religion or culture where women don't work because I want that set up and checked that with you and it be assumed the woman won't work - fair enough they all agreed but not otherwise.

Neil Kinnocks daughter in law who is primeminister of Denmark was quoted in the press yesterday saying everyone uses the same state child care which is quite cheap there and works (but traditionally we have been able to say in the UK but our taxes are much lower and we prefer that - I did however now our taxes are one of the highest in Europe that has now disappeared - even she supposedly a feminist has ended up with a husband very conveniently working away all during the week so he cannot be much help with the children and I am surprised she tolerates it.

I have not gone back to work. It is not by choice. My salary would have the house running at a loss with two children under 2 years old.

I really didn't see the point in making us lose money, just so that I might have a better job when they are in school...there are no guarantees that staying in work will mean I make more money in a few years time.

I will cross that bridge when it comes time. For now, we are just getting by.