Childcare costs are incredible, how do so many women afford to work

[Zealey]

Hi, I'm sure many people have asked this question before, but I've just seen a piece on the BBC News about how childcare costs are often thousands of pounds a month for multiple kids.
Here in London my local nursery charges £750 per child per month. Considering many return to work mums will be typically part-time and in low paid jobs, HOW does ANY make it pay? Surely not every mum in London is on £40k+ a year.
I'm sincerely curious.
Thanks.

The light is at the end of the tunnel for us as DS is getting the 15 hours in april, but it has been hell up to now. Although we have not gone into debt, we have been so skint after all our bills and that was with me working part-time, only paying childcare term-time and having a 2.5 year age gap between ours. I can only imagine how it feels for those with children in full-time, full-year care or with small gaps in between/more expensive areas than us.

This thread touched a nerve with me as the lovely lady handed at DD's breakfast club handed me a notice this morning that they were 'upping the fees in line with inflation' as of Maythis year. Nursery and After-school club have done this 3 years in a row, which is fine and I understand they have to. But knowing full well that I and many parents like me are in the middle of a 3 year pay freeze it does get to me sometimes. Same as anything I guess.
I have earnt more in the last 3 years, because I have had to to cover costs but only by working more hours, taking on more responsibility, taking on evening tuition and seeing my children less :( So now it hardly feels like I am part-time at all (do about 80% of full-time hours).

Thank goodness I don't live in London!

The going rate for a childminder round here ( central England) is between £3 and £3.50 per child per hour, meals excluded, though a nursery is a bit dearer.

We saved up before TTC.
Both used childcare vouchers.
Free hours when child gets to 5.
Plus nursery fees go down anyway as the child gets older.

Accepted we would be skint until the DC started school.

There was a time when I was no better off working by the time you'd factored in working costs and childcare (and for those who say that childcare costs should be shared - people who point out that childcare costs take most of their salary are normally mentally working out the value of them working versus not). But you have to play the long game.

The free nursery sessions, childcare vouchers, DP and I working from home one day a week, and taking the view that childcare doesn't come out of my salary, it comes out of both our salaries because it enables us both to work.

Also, I could not afford NOT to work. True, in the expensive childcare years the net gain was minimal but for one of us to have left the workplace would have been to leave us permanently exposed, by reduced promotion opportunities, lack of pension payments, reduced income for years to come. Working for those few difficult years is an financial investment.

Though some people either prefer to make the financial adjustment permanent in favour of being a sahp, or can afford to do so comfortably. But then for them the childcafre costs may not be critical, anyway.

It's not just in London or the south east - I lie in Glasgow and pay £40 a day for nursery, which would be £800 a month if DS was in full time. It costs me £14 a time for after school care for DD.
We work around this by me working on a Monday when my husband is not working, so we only pay for two days of childcare. We are not on a big wage, but without having grandparents around to help, just accept that this is what you have to pay. You get what you pay for, and the kids have to be happy and well-cared for.

I can't afford childcare,so i have two jobs both working nights,making it a 6 night week.
It makes it easier re childcare costs but I feel terrible that i am always 'snoozing' on the sofa instead of having fun with DS.

There have been a lot of good points made on this thread ie/ by continuing in employment you will get your employer pension contributions and for some, private healthcare etc plus I can imagine returning to work after a 5 year break would be very difficult (depending on your industry).

Can anyone advise what the threshold is for working tax credits?

Our nursery bill for 1 x DS is about £900 a month (£45 a day) but that is split between DP & I. When DS turns 3 the day rate drops to £38 and we will get the 15 free hours a week so i'm hoping to notice a difference. However! A few months after DS is 3 then DC2 will be starting in the nursery (all being well) and although will get a 10% sibling discount we will then be forking out more for nursery fees (am hoping to be eligible for some working tax credit with 2 x DCs in nursery as am not eligible with one). Then will have approx 18 months of paying for 2 x DCs in nursery before DS starts school.

We have accepted that the pre-school years will be financially tight. DC2 is due in June and I didn't know how to reduce DS's nursery time (he is FT) in order to a) give the time to DC2 newborn b) not disrupt DS's routine too much and c) be able to afford the nursery as would only have been getting SMP !!! However my work has had a total about turn and changed their maternity policy quite radically last week, and gone from SMP only to 90% pay for 6 months.

I agree that you do have to look at things long term, tightning the reins for 5 years is part of being a working parent family and we always knew this. The way pensions are going there is no way I could afford to not pay into one for 5 years, my partners's pension is no way enough to support us both, and our family when the time comes (especially as we have had children relatively late)

Well this just goes to show we don't benefit from living up north, my childcare fees are exactly the same only the opportunities for jobs are limited.
House prices aren't massively different either. We are going to hell in a hand cart !

I believe the threshold for help with nursery is £16,000 household income.

mumoftwolilboys.....from another 40+ Mum with 4 kids I missed out on the tax credits, vouchers, free hours etc ...and as the oldest is still only 13 - have missed out on free uni education etc too -- so feeling very squeezed middle.

However as my husbands company is rapidly going down the pan - I am glad to be working/continued to work as I would not like to be looking for a job in this market..

When mine were really little, I worked part-time and used a childminder, which was less expensive than a nursery.
As soon as my youngest was 3, I started using au-pairs. I didn't live in a mansion, the children had to share a bedroom - but as far as I could tell it was the most cost effective form of childcare. That combined with the nursery vouchers I received once they were 3 in the LA I lived in at the time, being self-employed & tax credits got me through. Didn't make much money, but paid the bills and fed us all!
The alternative, as a single parent, would have been to rely on state benefits - which I didn't want to do.

We have found a local nanny with her own dd (who she brings to work with her) a far more affordable way of doing it. Ds is four now so he does 5 mornings a week at nursery school, but dd is nearly a year away from any free funding, and the nursery ds goes to only does two afternoons a week for caterpillars (age 2-3). I could find somewhere else for her, but chances are ds will be going to the school attached to the nursery so school pick up and nursery pick up can be done at the same time.

We pay our nanny about £1000 per month, plus I feed her and her dd 3 days a week and pay for all their activities together, so in total it's a bit more than that. I'm in the fortunate position that my income still exceeds that quite a bit, as does dh's, so while we're not rolling in it, we can afford for me to work, and when they're both full time at school we'll only need after school care so in theory we'll be in the money

oh its you again. I thought you WANTED your wife to work. How therefore would you afford it???!!!

I paid £38 a day until December for dd3 - that's in York.

Pat - I agree I used to DREAD the fee increases.

We had three years between dd1 and 2 so only paid two lots of care for a short time and then dd3 arrived only once dd2 was at school. Paying childcare for more than 1 under 5 is very hard indeed.

'I believe the threshold for help with nursery is £16,000 household income'

We are on 26k and get a lot of help towards childcare. I think you can have a much higher income than 16k

and to reply sensibly to your OP, of course you can afford to work on less than 40k. I work p-t. I have two kids, one nursery, one school. Childcare costs are approx £800pm. If you only take into account my earnings, I therefore bring home not very much at the end of the month (about £200), however cc costs will decrease considerably when funding kicks in when DS2 hits 3.
If it was just me, then I would be entitled to benefits to pay my outgoings and would therefore still work. As I have a DH that earns, our pot is full enough to pay our bills ourselves. Thats how I afford to work.

to be honest i just don't understand my sister in law was working whilst she had twins she was coming home with just £20 after paying the nanny.

to be honest i never understood what the point was really £500 a week she was paying the nanny
two months ago she gave it up as they couldn't afford it any longer but i think many women are in this position they basically work for no wage

so my question is why do it

It has never been easy but even 27 years ago when I had child 1 we would never have dreamed of suggesting the cost comes from a mother's income./ How sexist! The parents pay half each. That's your calculation and loads of women earn more than men.

Also you look long term. one of us worked for nothing the first year we had our first baby as the nanny's cost was a net salary (we earned the same) but roll. on 27 years my 5 childen have or will graduate debt free, we have a lovely house, nice lifestyle etc etc precisely because of that sacrifice when i was 22 because we worked very hard, 2 weeks holiday to hav a baby in full time work. in 27 years I have never had a break from work other than at most a 2 week holiday and it paid off as I was sensible enough as a teenager not to pick work at minimum wage levels but a proper career. Make sure you advise your daughters and sons the same.

People ask what is the point. Say you are in a job like my daughter £60k starting salary and successful people there ultimately earn £1m or whatever it is,. surely you look forward and say well I might not get to the £1m but I might well earn £300k. Now if she had chosen something on £6 an hour the calculations are totally different. Even then you might think you could go on to own the cleaning business and get promoted or you just need for your sanity a job.

When I had one dc I was lucky inthat it was very easy for me to work - I worked three days a week 8-3 from home, dh looked after dd til 10 then went to work so she was only doing 15 hours childcare in return for me working 3 days on a 40k salary which pro ratad down to around 25k a year. I Also had childcare vouchers (no tax credits tho) so childcare cost about £180 a month and I had around £1100 left over.

Got made redundant on second maternity leave and it's a very different prospect with two pre schoolers to pay for.

As it happens I could only work full time if I wanted to continue my old career so I'm choosing to be a sahm mum for the time being. I do occasionally look at part time jobs but they pay so badly that I wouldn't have anything left over after childcare so I'm not tempted as they wouldn't lead to a career so I can't see the point.

Some men & women like their jobs / careers Mrbo. They choose to keep up their career, knowing that although childcare is very expensive when their children are very little, those costs reduce once the children go to school.
Also, if you are part of a couple, then you can look at joint income - rather than just the mother's & then it makes more sense!

but you earn no money and dont get to see your children.
she wont be able to send them private so they might not even get a good education.

even in 5 years even after school club with twins will be double the cost

I guess all parents have to make their own choices Mrbo. As a single parent, I wanted to support myself & my children & not be dependent on the state. I made it work for me/us. Wasn't always easy - but you cut your cloth according to what is available.

In the great scheme of things, after school clubs cost very little & I have two children - so paying the same as if I had twins!

£750 for full time nursery in London is incredibly cheap. I paid a fraction over double that 6 years ago.

Woman afford to work by a variety of means:

they don't bear the cost alone (by which I mean the cost comes out of the famy money pot)

They take a short term loss for long term gain

They earn lots.