Rishi Sunak said…

" Tories aren't nice people". Really? What sort of a statement is that for someone who identifies as intelligent?

I know of plenty of Labour party people and voters who aren't "nice people"; not in the slightest. It is not what you say you believe in and stand for that matters, it is how you conduct yourself that matters most to me.

When Labour supporters go on like this, or as I’ve seen in other posts how they can’t be friends with anyone bar Labour / left they seem very insular.

They do! And if you've ben around that kind of tribalism and insularity for a long time, which I imagine many of us have, you get to understand it very well.

I think it has become far more intense and tribalistic in recent years though -and the hostility has gone off the scale. I know lots of people used to genuinely 👹'hate' Margaret Thatcher ( and still do) and people like Norman Tebbit too - it was a badge of belonging. You still see people wearing T-shirts which state ' Still Hate Thatcher'. They became indistinguishable from Spittting Image puppets. The hatred is rooted in a feeling that Tories are immoral and only care about money and rich people.

Agree with PP about Kemi being genuine. Miriam Cates is too - you only have to watch her for a few minutes to see she understands the education system and is motivated by protecting and safeguarding children. A real politician of conviction - I very much wish she were my MP and I would love to vote for her.

When Labour supporters go on like this, or as I’ve seen in other posts how they can’t be friends with anyone bar Labour / left they seem very insular.

Agree. I’m atheist but I’m friends with some committed catholics. It doesn’t remotely affect the friendship. Jesus how can people even think like this.

I can’t vote Tory, Too much damage done to the Country by them over the years, but thank goodness someone in public eye has announced the immutable truth…
Women don’t have penises.

I still see people post on Facebook "If anyone has friends who are Tories could you tell them...." as if they are too pure to have that sort of friend.

(Actually they do but others keep quiet and just wonder how dim that person is.)

More recently I saw in the comments to one of these posts someone pointing out that the Labour politician mentioned had a poor track record on women's issues. Cue confusion. Left wing Fb posts are supposed to be affirmation only.

I also note that female Tory politicians with ethnic minority backgrounds get the most stick.

Agreed. It's a privilege to be able to base your vote on this matter alone.

"Privilege". Another word that's rapidly losing any meaning.

100% agree. We don't need to imagine where the road leads, we can look at Canada, Australia, NZ, California - and the prospect is horrific. It is not just Gender Identity Ideology, it is the authoritarianism required and eagerly adopted in order to impose it on the population.

The complicity of mainstream media in Canada has been a huge problem but it has been brought very sharply into focus in Australia and NZ with KJK's tour. What should we expect from regimes that legalise the commodification of women's bodies, legalised pay-to-rape laws and the buying and selling of newborn babies? State-approved violent suppression of women advocating for women's rights and the protection of children, the demonisation of dissidents.

I want the next Government to do more than tinker with economic policy. What is the price of personal liberty and free speech? Already we have people being sacked and threatened and harassed by the police for dissenting from an ideology that has its tentacles deeply entwined in all the institutions of state and public bodies. It is no good relying on "law fare" in the long term as the justice system is also being subverted.

This all started under a Labour Government. The only rational voices in Parliament during the GRA2004 debates were those of Tories, who I loathed and hated at the time so I would not have listened to them even if I had been aware of the legislation being proposed. Labour lied, ridiculed and smeared those who raised dissenting voices back then just as they do now.

I don't think we should underestimate the power and influence of Whitehall, the Civil Service, "arms length" bodies and QUANGOs. The problem with Labour is that they are of the same mind.

If you have not already done so, complete the College of Police online consultation questionnaire on "Recording non-crime hate incidents" by 11:59pm on Sunday 16 April.

https://www.college.police.uk/article/recording-non-crime-hate-incidents-have-your-say

Look at this example of a "trivial complaint" in the proposed "Authorised Professional Practice (APP)" for the Police and see the propaganda machine still at play, demonising women and seeking to undermine women's rights:

Example
The local authority and the police respond to community concerns reported to them about anti-transgender posters that were posted at the scene of an LGBT+ Pride event. The local authority removed the posters and the police recorded the complaint as a non-crime incident, adding a hate and prejudice qualifier on the grounds of hostility towards transgender identity. This was because the posters were assessed as containing threatening material. A person sees an online article about this and reports a hate crime on the grounds of religious hostility, saying that by removing the posters, the local authority have offended their philosophical faith around biological gender. The police review the complaint and decide that the actions of the local authority do not amount to a crime, and that it is irrational to record a non-crime hate incident. The complainant is asking the police to record legal activity by the local authority. Furthermore, this activity is not motivated by hostility. To record the complaint as a non-crime hate incident would not be rational

The police notify the complainant about their decision not to record a non-crime hate incident. In addition, they review the record and delete any personal data of the subject.

Page 11 - 12

The "subject" in this example is the Local Authority. There is no mention of deleting the personal data of the complainant, the person who has a "philosophical faith around biological gender", who is portrayed as approving of "anti-transgender posters . . . assessed as containing threatening material".

https://assets.college.police.uk/s3fs-public/2023-03/Recording-and-retention-of-non-crime-hate-incidents-APP-consultation.pdf

That is the sort of propaganda that underpins the now routine accusation by anti-woman activists that advocates for women's rights are "Nazis". Plus a bit of sleight of hand about the retention of personal data on such a complainant.

There is probably less emotive shorthand but this along with so many other examples (eg. the College of Justice refusing to disclose who advised and trained it on production of the very unequal "Equal Treatment Bench Book") smacks of the 'Deep State", with so many institutions of State being captured and working against women.

A Labour Government would have every single cabinet member on board with this so, whatever pie in the sky they might be promising, I am not going to vote for them. I have attended enough Labour Party conferences and canvassed on doorsteps often enough for Labour to know that most economic manifesto promises can be taken with a pinch of salt.

At the moment the only electable party that is trying to root out this monster is the Tories - although I would vote for POW, the SDP or the Communists if a candidate was standing. It would not unsettle the Tory vote as I am in one of the safest Labour seats in the land with a mega-TRA MP.

It's a privilege to be able to base your vote on this matter alone.

Is that right? So women voting based on which party will maintain their existing rights is privileged. Would you say something similar to a black person prioritising their rights? Homosexual people who might vote for a party based on equal marriage rights ( before we had it ). This ONLY gets levelled at women.

Come on Labour, you can see how your supporters think this is a complete non issue so all you have to do is match Sunak's statement - they won't bat an eyelid and my vote will be in the bag. If you won't do it then why not?

Tell labour that.
How is it my fault the only party to say what I want to hear is Tory?

You vote however you see fit. I'll do the same.

This 'Labour will put up taxes' thing makes me laugh.
Who is presiding over the highest tax burden since the war? Oh, that's right, this government.
They're doing it by stealth. Income tax thresholds have been frozen since 2021, originally it was to be until 2026, but Jeremy Hunt has upped it to 2028, so more and more people are being dragged into the higher tax bracket. The OBR says that 2.6 million more people will be on the higher rate.
Tell me again that the Tories are the party of low taxation.

We don't need to imagine where the road leads, we can look at Canada, Australia, NZ, California

Or we could look at England? For men intimidating and attacking women who are trying to meet peacefully while the police do fuck all or arrest the women? For males in women's hospital wards, toilets, sports, changing rooms, dormitories etc etc etc.

People are acting like the Tories are needed to come in a clear up a mess made by a previous government who let all these things happen....but it was them. They were in charge for 13 years and it all happened on their watch. And now they're supposed to be the saviours?

When it comes to action, look at schools. They have been promising guidance on this issue for years. And it still hasn't come. Why not?

People are saying it's the civil servants or Gillian Keegan or whatever. If the government can push through the flights to Rwanda stuff in the face of a very resistant Home Office....why haven't they issued trans guidance for schools? Gillian Keegan has been in the job for a minute, Rishi could put whoever he liked there.

It's because it's a complete mess, they've allowed it to become a complete mess, and now they've no idea how to fix it.

So Rishi can spout whatever he likes, but would far rather that other people - private companies, sporting bodies, shops, headteachers actually deal with the details and the fallout.

They can’t. They won’t do it

Best they can hope for is no one talks about the issue.

People are acting like the Tories are needed to come in a clear up a mess

No, once again, this isn’t about championing the tories policies or behaviour over the last few years. This is about the basics really. The labour leader thinks men can be women and the Tory leader doesn’t. That’s the basic starting position for discussion on the entire topic of women’s rights, what is a woman? Get that wrong and you cannot say you will do anything for us if we don’t exist as a separate sex class

This 'Labour will put up taxes' thing makes me laugh.

I don’t think people are laughing re even higher taxes in Scotland. The left version of higher taxes but poorer education and health isn’t appealing.

They can’t. They won’t do it
You might be right Marsha, we'll see.

Best they can hope for is no one talks about the issue.
I agree they were definitely hoping no-one would talk about it but I think that hope is well and truly busted. They've probably got till January 2025 to sort it out. My vote is there if they want it enough.

Here too there is a problem, with Rachel Reeves' line on CGT seemingly contradicted by colleagues.

It's not enough to say Labour will be better than the Conservatives because the Conservatives are awful.

We need to know why. Keir needs policies and the party need to own them.

What use to women is an NHS that will deliberately put you in mixed sex wards?
Give you a man to do your personal care when your older or disabled?
A man to do your smear and breast exam
A man to do your rape exam should you be so unlucky.

A hell of a lot of women will just stay home and die. Why would they put themselves willingly into such a space. And probably the worst affected will be women of religion. Who simply cannot be in the same room as a man. They wont be allowed out of the house.

What do we do with those women? All the advertisements for smear this, breast exam that will be useless. They wont be able to access it. Cptsd gives no fucks for kindness, religion cares not, a rape victim is not going to have the rape kit done by men. So many women victims of violence perpetrated by men will have no truck with this.

I currently wont go for my overdue breast exam because they cannot guarantee no men. If I die of perfectly treatable cancer, that's on them.

Why won't Labour budge on this 'one point?'

I don't think anyone on this thread has explained yet what they think is objectionable about Sunak's statement, so I do hope they're not only posting on here but pressurising Labour to adopt it.

Do you think calling us morons will bring us over to labour's side?

Hows that working out for you so far?

Do you actually go house to house for labour and call them morons when they say they are undecided or voting anyone but labour.

And how are we morons when all labour has to do is define women. Apparently rishi (assuming also a moron given his status) can do it. Why cant starmer?

I don't think anyone on this thread has explained yet what they think is objectionable about Sunak's statement

There are quite a lot of people out there who think trans women are women. Or if not exactly women, then should be treated as women.

People who have that opinion would be quite reasonable in thinking that Rishi is incorrect to say that women don't have penises. Because they may know people who have penises that they consider to be women.

You can be of the opinion that they are wrong to believe that, but apparently telling people that they are wrong is 'what the left do' and 'is a bad tactic'.

I am fed up to the back teeth of the assertion that single issue voting over women's rights is a "luxury".

Quite aside from the (not so) stealth misogyny that female voters should sacrifice their rights for the "greater good", the concept that I should vote for a party that has been ideologically captured by an ideology to the extent it is prepared to issue statements that defy biology is laughable.

Labour has a real credibility problem here, that transcends the issue of self id and women's rights.

When a man who is putting himself forward as the next PM goes on record saying that women can have a penis, it's only logical that some voters are going to question his fitness for the role when he's demonstrated that he is not only prepared to warp his own sense of reality but gaslight the public into doing the same.

Why should I believe Stammer about anything, about any policy?

How can I trust him to lead, rather than to be led?

Which other ideologies will Labour fall foul of that come under the category of batshit crazy because when they win the "trans war" SJW's and Stonewall will need to find another cause celebre to maintain their incomes and social purity?

So stop with this idea that it's up to women to vote for Labour regardless of their intention to dismantle our rights and start looking to place the blame of Labour risking losing the next election where it belongs - squarely with the party itself.