Rishi Sunak said…

I will vote for whoever is strongest on this issue at the time of the next g.e. Clearly, that's currently the Tories. I can't be fucked with the finger wagging. There may have been a time when these disapproving accusations would have had traction but once you've gotten over being a fucking bigot, a terf, a cunt who should die in a grease fire, then adding Tory voter to the list is relatively painless.

Definitely would not vote Tory after the absolute shit show of their term in office.

This is a non issue for me so makes no difference to my vote.

I sincerely hope women do not pick up on this one thing he's said and forget the years of running down essential services and the NHS, the lying, the corruption and the plain old ineptitude.

I’d say Keir Starmer is with you on this

I sincerely hope women do not pick up on this one thing

I doubt he’ll get his wish though

I am curious as to why people who (admittedly self-) identify as intelligent are somehow able to believe this single statement as being a gold plated certainty when faced with the undeniable litany of countless lies, lies and lies from this government.

To the extent it's irritating my spidey senses when hyperbole escalates. A little like if everyone who knew a benefit scrounger was telling the truth, then nobody would be working in UK.

I'm suspecting a lot of people know the Tories will shaft the poor, ill and vulnerable, and this is a fig leaf for them to justify that vote.

I'll ask again, if it's such a non issue, why can't Labour put out a statement that's as clear as Sunak's?

The moment that Labour unravels itself from the death grip of gender nonsense, I'll consider voting for them. It's up to them.

Meanwhile, I'll vote for a party where gender critical members don't have to meet up in secret, aren't yelled at in Parliament when they speak and aren't cast out as heretics. That's my choice. You make yours.

@SerendipityJane that wasn’t a very nice comment if it’s directed at posters here

who (admittedly self-) identify as intelligent

Who do you mean?

I don’t get the they’re only using this as an excuse to vote Tory and don’t care really.

Yes many women care, sadly for Labour, who would rather avoid the whole topic

I'm also waiting for evidence of decisive action.

I know the thread has moved on, but I just wanted to highlight this post.

This, and things like this, are why man people don't agree with the lazy assumption that the Conservatives rule for the rich, and Labour for everyone else.

They do clearly have some differernces in ideas about how to make the economy work best. But it's not at all clear that Labours ideas are universally better for all, including the poor. Many people who vote Consevative think that overall, their policies will be better for the economy as a whole, including the less well off.

Even more generally, not talking about specific policy points, there are many among the working classes who feel that Labour tends to want to up social supports to create an illusion of less poverty etc, but that they neglect the real issues like creating productivity, good jobs, and encouraging people to be empowered to do well rather than become passive.

Plus the evidence that in practice their policies are better, that they are less corrupt, is not so evident. In a lot of areas the policies of both parties are nearly identical.

And Labour's claims that they will improve things like the NHS sound lovely but the question really is, how? With what money? For a while there many on the left were claiming it was a good plan just to print more, but I think we can all see now that is as much a figment as trickle down economics.

I will be voting. This time, I will not spoil my ballot.

I have come to the view that it is an insult to the suffragettes (both past and modern day) who literally put their lives on the line to get the freedoms women enjoy in the UK today - most of which are under threat because of gender ideology - to spoil my ballot again. I know other women have come to another view, I - of course - respect their right to do with their vote what they wish and to have freedom of thought.

Even if I think all parties are terrible, I will vote for the least worst option. If that's the Tories, so be it.

We don't have to look very far - Afghanistan and Iran - to see that women can lose freedoms overnight and they are very hard to win back. Some of this has already happened in the UK - in Brighton women cannot access single sex rape support so that means very many will be excluded completely.

The economy can recover far faster (and will) than women's human rights, if lost.

Plus I think a lot of the problems in the NHS are not just because of underfunding but because of the pushing of this insidious ideology. How much has been spent on rewriting materials to be exclusive of female words? How many nurses would that have paid for? I have no doubt it's millions.

On another thread a poster says the FIRST question her mother was asked when trying to get help for an acute medical condition was 'how do you identify'? You can't have good healthcare if you deny biological reality and spend hundreds on thousands on staff who are pushing an anti-science agenda rather than nurses. And that's what's happened and is happening. Yes, the Tories presided over this but they have admitted their mistake and indicated a course change. I'd like to see decisive action but I will vote for least worst no matter what.

My vote is there for the taking. I really hope I have a Party of Women candidate in my area.

By the way I see no evidence that Labour would spend more on frontline staff - it seems just as likely that under them any funding increases would be entirely hoovered up by the ironically named EDI consultants - who in reality exclude most people.

And for those wondering why something hasn't been done already, because it's self evident about the direction of travel, it's not that long ago where I was personally told, how ridiculous I was being.

You can generally sort disagreeing posters into transactivists and non transactivists on here.

So ignoring transactivists, many perfectly normal, every day women simply did not believe that it would be at all likely that men would be put in women's prisons, or would be permitted to play women's sport.

'It just won't happen', was the prevailing thought.

Even on FWR. Which is made up mostly of feminists. There were quite a few women who still didn't think it possible. And that it was ludicrous even thinking so. And AIBU thought that FWR was wrong, and on the wrong side of history

But now, the 'totally ludicrous' is fast becoming the completely normal.

And judging by Canada, America, New Zealand, etc, it's the tip of the iceberg.

Students at a prestigious university can lock a well known, record-breaking swimmer into a room for three hours, demanding money for her release because she says sex is real, or men can break the skull of a pensioner for the same viewpoint.

These things are happening. And we're absolutely on the same path here.

Personally I think gender ideology is only the beginning of the issues for our government.

The violence towards women is going unchecked.

TRAs would be fuming about prisons, and sport, but toilets? Changing rooms? It's where most of them get their jollies! Not to mention all the rest of them who like to stick it to women by trampling on their boundaries.

The violence against women over this issue is utterly shocking. And altho part of me thinks because Rishi is male, he won't get the same pushback, I'd be surprised if he hasn't unleashed something that he was not expecting.

I want the entire country to see it.

So personally, anything that gets this front and centre, is a plus in my opinion.

We don't have to look very far - Afghanistan and Iran - to see that women can lose freedoms overnight and they are very hard to win back. Some of this has already happened in the UK - in Brighton women cannot access single sex rape support so that means very many will be excluded completely.

Yes this exactly

Also totally agree with PFI - it was a way for Labour politicians to get rich. Scandalous waste of money and yes part of the reason the NHS is on its knees. That sort of thing should have been criminal when dealing with taxpayer funded public services.

Also all the Labour politicians who got rich off the tax payer with their house allowances and flipping properties. Most of them are no better than the Tories (with some notable exceptions - one thing I will say for Corbyn the evidence is he's never played the expenses system like so many)

By the way I see no evidence that Labour would spend more on frontline staff

I could be wrong but I’m sure they said they couldn’t meet the nurses pay demands either, as well as others

Tories aren't very nice people.

And no one has yet managed to explain in amongst all this frothing why this comment is accepted as the Word of the Lord, whereas (for example) the promises on hospitals, NHS staffing, police, or almost any other subject have vanished in the mist.

People do realised that if the Tories are re-elected, they will have another 5 years in which to ignore any issue they want ?

I am under no illusions that all parties have their flaws, faults and issues. Which is why it does the world of good to flip the record every so often. A change being as good as a rest, as they say.

Indeed. It's obviously a vital issue, which ever way you cut it up. He simply refuses to state the facts

It's clearly something that he is simply unable to do.

To me it's always looked like fear.

Tories aren't very nice people. This sort of statement is proper bigotry. If you say this, then you're saying that you think a large proportion of the population is 'not very nice' which is obviously quite a prejudiced point of view.

Lots of people have their reasons to vote Tory. You can't possibly know what they all are. To dismiss everyone who votes a certain way as 'bad' like this is also very ineffective in changes people's opinions.

This sort of point of view I have no doubt makes more people vote Tory than not.

I can't wait for KJK with her plain speaking to go up against Keir Starmer on this issue.

Tories aren't very nice people.

Again, are you directing these comments to posters here?? Who is ‘tories’? The party? People that vote for them- because that’s millions of people you’re referring to. Labour member by any chance?

I agree 👏👏

amongst all this frothing

No frothing here. Glad to hear sense from somewhere even if Starmer thinks no one else does.

One of the reasons I think the comment is sincere, it's because it makes sense, and costs little.

Taking gender ideology out of schools, holding Stonewall to account, telling the NHS to start talking about biological sex, instead of gender and chest feeding, and giving service providers the correct wording to exclude men from women's spaces, doesn't sound like an expensive exercise, to me.

Plus it's what the voters want.

And you only need to look at Kemi Badenoch for three seconds, to realise that she, at least is incredibly sincere in getting this ball rolling.

It's a cheap and popular move which just resets the clock to reality.

Why wouldn't it be sincere?

That very patronising post, which if it had alternatively been directed towards someone who votes Labour no matter what they do, would most likely have been reported for deletion.

Those who know something intimately and who have had the highest ideals are often the fiercest critics when that 'something' lets them down. That's how many people, myself included, now feel about the Labour party and about those who self identify as 'kind and progressive'. They are rarely kind when it comes to anyone with an alternative view and are the quickest to the name calling, and the attempts to shut down discussion.

I live in a Left wing city and over the years neither Labour nor Tory administrations have made much difference to any of the issues you mention above. I doubt a Starmer government would either. He has rather a lot to live up to and to deliver with what amounts to a much reduced budget and in a time of global inflation and high prices. Most Momentum supporters are still in thrall to Jeremy Corbyn and many of the older traditional Leftists detest Starmer and expect nothing meaningful or significant from him. He has already abandoned many of the pledges he made in pursuit of re-election.

We are obviously posting here because the issue of gender ideology has become a central issue and one of fundamental impact and is one that we are committed to pushing back against. Many are life long or natural Labour voters and even labour party members. Many have never voted Tory and still do not intend to; some of us may if they give a cast iron commitment to this issue.

Even If I loved Starmer and thought him great PM material ( I don't) I could not bring myself to vote for my local Labour MP. She has consistently refused to meet with her constituents on the issue of Self Id and furthermore we've been told " we're wasting our time" and "she won't be changing her mind".