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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I consider myself a feminist...and a housewife.

191 replies

darcymum · 26/04/2010 22:32

I don't want a job, I just want to stay home look after my children and cook nice dinners. I dread the day my youngest goes to school as I know I will have to get a job. DH goes to work I do most of the house work... I like it that way. I am not a surrendered wife, my husband doesn't tell me what to do.

And yet I consider myself a feminist, I am a feminist, and am a very strong supporter of women's rights, and men's rights if they want to stay at home and be 'mum' like me.

Am I deluded and oppressed and just don't know it?

OP posts:
DeirdreB · 26/04/2010 22:47

Interestingly I have been reading some of the feminist threads and having the same thoughts. I trained as an engineer, worked in a factory with no women's loos. travelled half way round the world on my own and earned more money than my husband, now I rely on my husband for all my money, I cook and clean for my family and have no intention of going back to work. I like making cakes, doing the school run and dream of making my own curtains.

I am proud of who I was before and am proud of who I am now, but often wonder if it wouldn't have been easier to have gone to finishing school, married well and had my children earlier.

I will encourage my daughter to be whoever she wants to be, but deep down, what do I want for her?

purits · 26/04/2010 22:51

Are you Descartes?
"I think I am a feminist therefore I am"

Why do you consider yourself a feminist? What do you do that could be classed as feminist?
If cheering from the sidelines counts then I won the London marathon yesterday.

HerBeatitude · 26/04/2010 22:52

Groan. Are you trying to incite Xenia? She'll be along soon to tell you where you're going wrong, you do realise that, don't you?

Irishchic · 26/04/2010 22:54

Why do you consider yourself a feminist? What do you do that could be classed as feminist?

Purit - Darcymum made a choice about what she wanted to do, isn't that what Feminism was all about, women having the freedom to choose?

Hassled · 26/04/2010 22:56

I think feminism, more than anything, is about the right to choose how you live your life without external pressure.

You've made a choice you're happy with, but you know about and support womens' rights to pursue other paths, and as far as I'm concerned that's completely fair enough. Do what makes you happy.

WinkyWinkola · 26/04/2010 22:57

Feminism is about choice and being respected for your choice whether is be a sahm or a working mother.

Trouble is, nobody has much respect for the job parents do, women or men. That's the disgusting thing. Nobody values the time and effort people choose to spend with their children, sometimes at the sacrifice of their careers.

purits · 26/04/2010 22:59

Eh? You mean the 'freedom' to say "I don't want a job"? That's not choice, that's laziness.

SugarMousePink · 26/04/2010 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WinkyWinkola · 26/04/2010 23:01

I've got a job. I work seven days a week, sometimes very long shifts. Sorry you don't see that as work, purits.

I used to work in the City, five days a week and often until 9 pm at night. That was nothing compared to what I do now.

So excuse me if I feel mildly irritated at being called lazy.

BitOfFun · 26/04/2010 23:04

This issue keeps coming up on these threads: the idea that feminism is about choice. But it isn't. That is just libertarianism.

I chose to wear jeans today, and I am a woman. Ergo wearing jeans is a feminist act.

Er, not really.

paulaplumpbottom · 26/04/2010 23:07

Of course you can be a SAHM and a feminist.
Its all about choice and you have made the one that makes you feel content and happy. I feel more fullfilled now being a SAHM then I ever did when I was working.

purits · 26/04/2010 23:08

I wasn't quoting you WW, I was quoting the OP.
She didn't give some speech about the importance of raising the next generation or how worthwhile and enriching it all is. She just said that she didn't want a job and was 'dreading' having to go back to work at some stage. Not exactly the stuff to rally womankind, is it?

DeirdreB · 26/04/2010 23:15

SMP What would tne feminist answer?

PhoenixRising · 26/04/2010 23:17

Just assuming for a moment, as purits suggests, that not wanting a salaried job equates to being lazy (which I don't personally agree with) - I wasn't aware that being 'lazy' disqualifies one from being a feminist?

Can you not have indolent feminists then? Is it essential to graft until your knuckles bleed?

Bollocks!

PhoenixRising · 26/04/2010 23:20

Purits, why don't your write out a role description for us - it seems a feminist must also be a role model to 'rally womankind' too?

ItsGrimUpNorth · 26/04/2010 23:27

BitofFun, the fact that you can choose to wear jeans and not a long dress is part of the history feminism actually.

BitOfFun · 26/04/2010 23:34

Okaaaaaaay- what if I choose hotpants and then choose to go poledancing? Is that a feminist choice because I as an individual feel 'empowered' to choose it? Or does it actually contribute to a view of women as sexual objects and make some women's lives that bit more difficult?

Because whatever choice you make as an individual, unless you are making it as part of a collective struggle to advance the liberation of women, then it is not a feminist choice.

Otherwise all that feminism boils down to is 'I can do what I like, me', and that, as I say, is libertarianism and can end up reinforcing the oppression of other women. Choice in itself is not a feminist act.

Molesworth · 26/04/2010 23:39

Am I hallucinating the bit of this thread where the OP was accused of laziness?

As if looking after children is not work.

WTF

wastingaway · 26/04/2010 23:44

I'm a housewife and feminist.

Being a wage slave is no better than being a kitchen-sink slave.
At home I'm in control of my work.
And yes, I know it's possible to earn money while being the boss. I shall be working on that while I'm at home.
No dignity in working a shit job for some 'work ethic' when it's not monetarily required.

PhoenixRising · 26/04/2010 23:45

"Because whatever choice you make as an individual, unless you are making it as part of a collective struggle to advance the liberation of women, then it is not a feminist choice"

Depends upon your perspective about what 'advances the liberation of women'. This is inevitably subjective. My personal view is that hotpants and poledancing is deleterious to the cause of feminism as it encourages the objectification of women. I see no such problem with choosing to be a SAHM however.

Also, you can be a feminist without each and every one of your choices being about advancing the cause. How relentlessly tedious would that be? To live your life by manifesto? As long as you don't engage in anything anti-feminist, I would suggest that there are neutral choices (which are neither feminist nor anti-feminist) that are perfectly compatible with being a feminist....

PhoenixRising · 26/04/2010 23:47

I agree wastingaway re "no dignity in working a shit job for some 'work ethic' when it's not monetarily required"

blackcurrants · 27/04/2010 00:06

I'm not a housewife (not even a mum - yet! ) and I think you can be a housewife and a feminist. What IS worth examining, is why some women are housewives (i.e. because their partners earn more, because it's expected) because they might have felt pressured into making that decision otherwise they're not good mothers, etc, etc. But I trust women, I tend to think they know their own minds. If you're a housewife I'm not going to tell you it's NOT a feminist choice. But the choices behind how/why we work at home or outside of the home are always worth feminist scrutiny.

I don't get the chance to stay at home with my LO when s/he arrives, cos feminism is not sufficiently advanced in this country (USA) to grant me any maternity leave. I'd quite like to stay home for a bit, but I can't as we can't live on DH's salary (and pay for healthcoverage for LO and me). Plus, if I stop my career now I have to start again from the beginning, basically (and after 5 years of training at crappy wages I'm not going to do that). So what am I going to do instead? I'm going to pay some woman with fewer degrees than me, probably from a lower social income bracket, and probably an immigrant to this country - to take care of my 4 week old baby. I have to say, that doesn't feel especially feminist either, to be honest.

I'm shocked by the implication that the OP is lazy because she's a housewife. My mum was a housewife and she worked blardy hard the whole time. Not sure if it's a job I'd ever want, full-time. Might be too hard!

I'm in a bit of a muddle with this one, can you tell? Certainly, I don't think being a housewife excludes you from being a feminist. Nor, however, do I think that it's a feminist act because you choose to do it. I found this post very insightful, it might be of interest to some.

Molesworth · 27/04/2010 00:31

This issue is much more complicated now because women now make up more than 50% of the workforce in the US (says Nancy Fraser last year, presumably that's still correct?) and I imagine the situation's about the same in the UK too. So women are in the workforce in huge numbers, mostly doing low paid service sector jobs with no job security, temporary contracts etc. I don't think it makes sense to lift the 2nd wave feminist critique of the 'housewife' role straight from 1970 - the dying days of that post-war period of Keynesian social democratic capitalism - and plonk it down again in 2010 - after the gains made by the women's movement and 30 years of neoliberal capitalism - unchanged tbh. The backdrop is completely different.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 27/04/2010 03:56

If darcysmum is a strong supporter of the rights of men to stay home if they wish, and doesn't believe that it is her role to stay at home because she has a womb, that's at least a non-sexist attitude.

We're getting tangled up in whether her choice to stay at home is a feminist choice vs whether she is a feminist.

The latter - absolutely. The nonfeminist choices I make don't preclude me from being a feminist. Whether they put the 'cause' backwards is another matter but, you know, I do what I need to do to thrive in the patriarchy.

Likewise, I don't think choosing to stay at home is an overly feminist act, but I also don't think it's antifeminist, and it certainly doesn't 'disqualify' one from being a feminist.

Personally I think you are only disqualified if your views and choices are actively designed to limit the choices of other women. I don't believe you can be an anti-reproductive-rights feminist, for example.

ProfYaffle · 27/04/2010 06:51

Of course you can be a housewife and a feminist, I certainly am. As the lovely MNer on that BBC 4 documentary pointed out, there's a difference between capitalism and feminism.

What do I do that could be considered a 'feminist action'? I look after my family and my home and I expect my contribution to recognised and respected for the inherent value it has. My husband and I have an equal say in how the family runs, I certainly don't exist to service his needs.

I don't claim to be well read in feminist theory but wasn't there a move to value the work of women which doesn't generate income, the child rearing, the homemaking? Feminism surely doesn't = paid work?

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