I consider myself a feminist...and a housewife.

[darcymum]

I don't want a job, I just want to stay home look after my children and cook nice dinners. I dread the day my youngest goes to school as I know I will have to get a job. DH goes to work I do most of the house work... I like it that way. I am not a surrendered wife, my husband doesn't tell me what to do.

And yet I consider myself a feminist, I am a feminist, and am a very strong supporter of women's rights, and men's rights if they want to stay at home and be 'mum' like me.

Am I deluded and oppressed and just don't know it?

I seriously disagree with those who say that they feel like their partner who works pays for them & they don't have their own money.

I see our family unit as having the following needs
Money
High quality child care
Housekeeping

We work as a co-operative; as it happens at present I am providing the childcare, this leaves dh free to work long days & provide the money, housekeeping is disputed as like many families we each think we work hard but is generally equally divided along lines of preference; ie I like cooking but would rather have my eyes scratched out than clean the bathroom

"This issue keeps coming up on these threads: the idea that feminism is about choice. But it isn't"

Quite.

Oh molesworth thank you so much... my tiny brain has been working over time everytime I see it..!

Ok, I do have a little point to make that has only just occured to me recently when I've been trying to work out what it is that I find so difficult about women staying at home. (trying to work this out because it just sits so uncomfortably with me, always has, but the more I hear on here that so many women are happy with being a SAHM I have been trying to work out why I would not be)

If you do take 4 years out to look after your children, or more, you are automatically reducing your ability to earn as much as another woman of your years and/ or experience... and indeed a man. This is purely because you have a womb and gave birth. Therefore you are allowing the fact that you are a woman hinder your progress and success in the work place.

I understand that the work place is only a small area that one can assert her female rights etc but it is a biggy in regards to this - I would say home and work are the two areas one is most likely to encounter sexism.

I also realise that after the initial necessary 4 weeks recovery after labour etc, couples can choose for the dad to be at home. But this is rare because once the woman has started providing the day time care for the children, it is considered most practical in most cases for her to continue.

Sadly in fact, most wont even consider the man should give up his career.

I suppose I feel that the fact that biolgically I had to carry the child doesnt mean I want to give up my right to financial independance for it anymore than a man would..?

wastingaway - but if maternity leave can be shared between both parents at the parents' choice, then that leaves the parents able to decide that they want their child to be BF for a year and that the mother will take the leave.

those who don't want to BF for so long, or at all (and there are plenty who don't) can choose to give the father a longer amount of leave.

the point is that the parents should have the choice. at the moment they don't.

Totally agree with wastingaway.
'Being a wage slave is no better than being a kitchen-sink slave' and on the shared parental leave. I am a SAHM but don't label myself. I feel a sense of freedom SAH and being my own boss. I don't feel any more dependent on DH then I did when we both worked. If someone calls me lazy for SAH, then it doesn't bother me one jot, but I would wonder if they were jealous or unhappy deep down with their choices.

"Therefore you are allowing the fact that you are a woman hinder your progress and success in the work place."

Or could it be that 'the way the system is set up' is what's hindering that woman's progress and success in the workplace rather than the woman herself?

I agree with those who think feminism should respect parents who are looking after children and not in paid work. Whether fathers or mothers. But I do have feminist quibbles with the term "housewife". I don't think any feminist should be comfortable defining herself by her marital or relationship status. Staying out of paid work to do important (often undervalued)childcare and domestic work, yes fine. Especially for those with underpaid unrewarding paid work options, or crummy childcare options. But definining yourself in terms which suggest your main identities in life are to home and husband? urgh.

Of course you should be able to choose what you want to do regardless of sex. But not all choices are feminist ones. Blindly accepting the status quo is not a feminist choice. Accepting that you have a certain role because you are a woman (or a man) is not a feminist choice. Having certain expectations of your children due to their sex is not a feminist attitude.

The choices you make help to reinforce or diminish sexist stereotypes - that is something that feminist need to recognise.

imaginewittynamehere - your post is the kind of post that makes me rethink everything I think I know.. You sound so together and cool about the whole split of duties...

I wonder why I am so hung up on asserting myself as a feminist by being financially independant???

I guess its the whole... I'd kick myself if he left me and I had no career arghhhh!

Also, I really dont think for one second that my kids would be better of for me staying at home with them. So that helps.

well i was wondering this yesterday when my SIL, suddenly spoted sth along the lines of 'i don't to sit on my bum, producing children and watching them get biger, i want to contribute something to society'..my response was mild.....

but I thought she was being sexist, and the reason is, sh didn't place any value on motherhood, and didn't se it as a valid contribution to society (whilst pai work is?)

I think the whole low status of motherhod is essntially based in prejudice...and therefore a true feminist would place a high value on motherhood, rather than denigrating that choice which so many women make (and so few men)

Agree LG and foureleven,

In a perfect world, everyone, man or woman, would be equally likely spend time out with children, to work flexibly or part time as they wished, or to focus on their career at different points in their life. For me the issue is that at the moment it is still very much the woman who will tend to take on the domestic responsibilities (and foresake future potential income) rather than the man.

I understand that the income part doesn't matter if you stay together, but as LG said, plenty of couples don't and then financial prospects become an issue.

foureleven, it's not just practical for the woman to stay at home because she's already there, it's financially encouraged. My husband's employer gives new fathers two paid weeks of paternity leave. New mothers at my work get six fully paid months. For us, it's a no brainer as to who will take time off. Most of my friends have benefited from similar extended maternity leave (although rarely quite so generous). I don't know a single man who has been offered more than two weeks of paternity leave.

"Or could it be that 'the way the system is set up' is what's hindering that woman's progress and success in the workplace rather than the woman herself?"

Well, not entirely the system. I dont think that someone who has been out of industry for 4 years can offer the same as someone who has not...

happysmiley, excellent point re yours and husbands paternity and maternity leave.. eurgh.. ridiculous isnt it?!

Re taking time off, I know quite a few people who have taken a year off in their 20s to go travelling. That seems much more acceptable to employers than taking a year off to look after a baby.

Imagine: you have written exactly what I was going to - we need income, childcare, housekeeping, and we divvy that up between us. It so happens that DH is older than me and didn't stay in education quite so ridiculously long, so he was well-established on the career ladder well before me, so it makes sense for him to be out there sorting the income while I do the childcare (and neither of us really does housework beyind the bare essentials). I see it as his job being earning, mine being kids and food, I am here more than him so tend to do the vacuuming and what have you, but at the end of the day when we are both home then the jobs get shared and we both get a bit of time off. I don't feel oppressed.

another excellent point happysmiley!

happysmiley and imaginewittyname - agree completely.

the point is that two parents ought to be able to divvy up the roles between them according to what suits them (and their child) best as individuals

not according to (a) outdated notions of women and men being inherently good at different things (though of course this may be true in particular cases)

or (b) government incentives towards a particular division of roles, for example the current maternity/ paternity leave imbalance

Like Fennel, I am unhappy with the term.

Also I think that:

(a) housework and children are different things. The problem, often, is how much they are conflated.

(b) the whole 'mothers are not respected enough' cliche is a bit, well, dodgy. Women are not respected enough. (Actually children aren't either, but that is a separate issue.) I don't, as it happens, want to be worshipped for my reproductive capacities, not least because that assumes all sorts of things about Good Motherhood and Duty that I really do not wish to have anything to do with.

I want my daughter to have the freedom, without prejudice, belittlement or barriers, to make any choices she wishes. However, is it really "outdated to say that women and men are inherently good at different things"?

I have become more convinced than I was in my early 20's that women and men are different, approach life in different ways and have different things to offer.

Obviously there are huge ranges in behaviour, skills etc but men say what needs to be said, women chat, men answer the question that has been asked, women ask questions to start a discussion so that they can form reasoned opinions, men focus on the task at hand, women see the wider consequences more readily.

A balanced society would recognise, accept and exploit these differences, rather than expecting everyone to behave in the same way.

deidre, I think everyone behaves in different ways, we're all individuals after all, it doesn't always come down to being a man or a woman.

I wonder how many of these traits are learnt and how many we believe exist because we've been told they do.

I remember when I first met my future PIL. DH warned me beforehand that MIL "likes to have a good chat." He gave the impression that once she started, she never stopped.

The minute I got in the home though, MIL said hello, exchanged pleasantries etc, while FIL started really chatting. An hour later, MIL had barely got a word out edgeways, while FIL had gone through a whole list of conversational topics (local attractions, places to visit, local history, every pet the family had ever owned and so on). DH just said, "that's odd, he never usually talks like that."

Having got to know them since, FIL is perfectly capable of talking for England, but MIL has the reputation, because she's a woman.

DeidreB

Yes, it's outdated. And wrong.

It may be that, on average, women are slightly better at some things than men, and on average, men are slightly better at some things than women.

However, firstly, the average difference is really pretty small. Secondly, and most importantly, these differences are average. They are generalisations. That means they do not apply to many, many individual women and men.

(Oh yes and thirdly a lot of these differences are down to different upbringing rather than inherent. But that's a different topic).

The moment people start to say eg "men are more mathematically minded than women" or "women are more caring than men", they make it that much harder for the women who ARE good at maths and want to be mathematicians... or the men who ARE good at caring and want to be social workers.

So please, don't say "women chat, men say what needs to be said". Say "In my experience, more women chat, and more men answer the question". (My own experience, as it happens, is different.)