How is it possible to be a feminist and support the sex industry?

[Molesworth]

I've just been reading this article from the guardian. Young girls are being sold to brothel keepers and made to take steroids so that they look older than they really are.

All my instincts say that the sex industry is just plain wrong. I know some feminists think it's OK (although obviously they wouldn't support practices like those described in the article). Are there any sex industry supporting feminists here? What's the rationale?

I wouldn't claim to be a sex-industry supporting feminist, but I'll attempt to answer your question.

Feminism to me is about having the right to be a woman and not be disadvantaged as a result.

Surely if any woman chooses to work in the sex industry (and yes, some do), then why should they not have that right?

I think any individual with an ounce of humanity would see that forcing anyone into the sex industry is utterly immoral, and also forcing them to take steroids is also wrong. Selling people like they are chattels is hugely immoral and a despicable practice. But if I want to get paid to lapdance or strip or have sex with another individual - whats wrong in that?

(Just for the record I am a boring middle aged woman working in a boring middle class job and I wouldn't dream of having sex for money - and I can't see anyone choosing to pay me to strip!)

That article is horrific though and nothing to do with the sex ndustry we westerners think of (playboy etc)

Whats happening in the article is rape and slavery of woman and children

Surely it's not about supporting the sex industry, but about supporting the women who are in it? Some of them will have made the choice to be in it, some of them will have been forced in by circumstances, some will have been forced in by immoral individuals as above. We need a nuanced view of the issue - I thought this article here was good on the subject.

Starting the thread with that article was a bad idea: I don't really mean to imply (as I may have appeared to do) that anyone who supports any aspect of the sex industry is thereby condoning these sorts of particularly horrific practices.

"But if I want to get paid to lapdance or strip or have sex with another individual - whats wrong in that?"

What's wrong with it is that your choice (hypothetical 'you', of course ) is perpetuating an industry which profits from violence against women, at the 'milder' end of the industry as well as the 'extreme' end (such as the brothel in that article).

I'm not normally a black/white thinker, but this issue looks really clear-cut to me. Interested to hear other views.

This is a really tricky question, and one to which I don't have an answer.
An observation, though: To me, the sex industry seems inherently anti-feminist so I can't support it in good conscience. And I don't. BUT at the same time, traditionally it's sex workers (majority of whom are women) who are demonized, patronized, and criticized for participating in the sex industry(i.e. not Johns) - and they also suffer most of the consequences of it.

Sooooo I can't support the sex industry, no. But I think it's better to be respectful and listen carefully to sex workers, than to tell them they're anti-feminist tools or whatnot.

Essh, I'm tying myself in knots. Can you tell I haven't thought this through yet?!

Or, what comixminx said. That'll teach me to post before refreshing!

.

The problem with that arguement JeezyPeeps, is that by choosing to sell your body, you keep the concept that a woman's body is a comodity alive. Whilst that concept is alive and kicking, women will be sold, and the sex industry will continue to exploit them. After all, if you can pay for them, they are only objects, that can be moved for cash. And owned. Objects don't have rights, or for that matter, choices. So yes, you can choose to sell your body, but your choices have an impact on vulnerable women. With freedom of choice comes responsibility. Thats what is wrong with choosing to sell your body.

But even women who choose to work in the sex industry only do it because it's the best option available to them at the time.

No one grown up thinking, when I'm big I'm going to be a prostitute.

Well, I sell my mind at work. My xp sold his body by doing physical work. We all sell some aspect of ourselves for money.

It is a very different thing to sell the use of your body or mind for a short time, than to have someone own you and sell you as a person.

I stand by my arguement.

And I will also add that, if a person chooses to sell sex, then the person that is being exploited is the person that is paying the money - not the person making the choice to sell.

Of course the nature of the industry does mean that women are exploited, but not all. Look at Belle du Jour

I take the point about sex workers, but surely there are few feminists who would condemn sex workers or blame them for doing the work that they do?

In the Sex Work Shibboleth article, someone says ?Criminalisation of kerb-crawling, to take one example, is harmful to sex workers because ultimately they are the ones who suffer,? - this seems a ridiculously short-sighted view

But Belle du Jour's choices cause the exploitation of other women. It leads to a society in which the purchasing of a woman's body is acceptable, which leads to the exploitation of women to meet that demand.

Doing a mental or physical job involves selling the product of your mind or body, prostitution make the body itself the comodity. Not the same thing at all.

I disagree that BdJ's choices cause the exploitation of other women - such explotation has been around for thousands of years. Surely it's better for sex workers like BdJ and similar that they at least profit from their own "explotation"?

Yes, better for them, but what about all the other women who do not choose the profession but are forced into it. BdJ perpetuates the myth for punters that its Ok to buy sex.

Slavery has been around for thousands of years, as has rape, doesn't make it OK, and doesn't mean we should accept it.

But why are BdJ et al "attacked"/blamed/whatever the word is, for providing that which ideally should/can be provided - willing sex workers who are not exploited or abused? Aren't they exemplars of how the sex industry could be?

If the cukture says it is ok for men to have sex on deman/pay for sex/look at a woman's naked body whenever he feels like it then you have to have enough women to have sex with and who are willing to take their clothes off. Once you run out of women willing to do this (this must happen by the laws of supply and demand) then those who make a great deal of money out of this will then start tricking or forcing vulnerable women into working in this "industry".

The sex industry also caters for those who want virgins, underage children, animals etc.

The cultural norm that men must and can satisfy their desires at will, can only lead to exploitation of someone, somewhere.

Do any of the known owners of sex magazines and films etc ever sold thenmselves on a street corner? No, they are businessmen supplying a need and by any means they can. And that includes co-ercion of workers.

I go to work and sell my labour, but I am guaranteed not to get an STD or a black eye from doing so.

But I don't think our culture does says any of those things, does it? And the "laws of supply and demand" say that where there is a demand (and there undoubtedly is a demand for sex workers) there will be a supply - surely better that the "supply" end is the likes of BdJ, making the money for themselves?

I see what you're saying about unscrupulous pimps and so on, and completely agree that no-one should ever be forced into sex work - but how to deal with that, without infringing on the rights of BdJ etc to sell sexual services in a manner they choose?

I don't think being a feminist is reconcilable with supporting the sex industry.

I am seriously in favour of legalised brothels, decent protection for the women, legalised prostitution, a much more open system where it's not just presumed that a person who is a prostitute is not assumed to be a bad parent and has their children taken away. I also want much tougher sentencers for traffickers and pimps.

So I am a feminist but I support proper protection for sex workers.

Because they are one of the reasons for the continuation of a system which does exploit and abuse. As I stated before, if one sells ones body, one gives the message that a body is a comodity, not a human being with rights. In an ideal situation, one chooses to have sex with someone because they attract you, because they behave in a way that appeals to you, whatever that may be. When you sell your body, you tell the person purchasing that they don't need to act in a appealing/attractive/respectful manner, so long as they have the cash. You say that you are willing to sacrifice your own normal choice of partner in exchange for money. You are a comodity, not requiring normal human interaction. So the person buying doesn't need to treat you as a human being in order to get sex. And he doesn't need to treat a trafficked, exploited, drug addicted woman as human either.

Incidently, I'm only focusing on this due to the comments of others on the thread. THis is only part of the issue, don't get me wrong, I don't hold BdJ as solely to blame. I just feel that our choices come with consequences, and that in a moral society, we must take them into consideration. I may choose to lapdance for fun, but that choice has consequences, whether I mean them or not.

last post in answer to Oldladyknows nothing!

And I think BdJ's rights should be infringed due to the consequences. We don't live in a free for all. I don't have the right to choose to do anything I wish, if it has negative consequences for others, society has a right to prohibit it. THats why its illegal for me to choose to make a living selling drugs, however I may wish to. ( I don't but you get the point )

dittany - I think that may be true in other countries but I think it could work here and is indeed what the union of prostitutes (international union of sex workers) want.

Frankly I think it's worth a shot - I don't believe it could be worse than it is now.