How is it possible to be a feminist and support the sex industry?

[Molesworth]

I've just been reading this article from the guardian. Young girls are being sold to brothel keepers and made to take steroids so that they look older than they really are.

All my instincts say that the sex industry is just plain wrong. I know some feminists think it's OK (although obviously they wouldn't support practices like those described in the article). Are there any sex industry supporting feminists here? What's the rationale?

Oh for goodness sake. Is that what that was all about?

Do you want my website address? Do you want me to get a note from my Mummy stating that I'm allowed to indulge in playground squabbling?

"oh wait."

dittany

Not very convincing, is it?

But even if you (MissHM, Mandamumu) are genuine, you've still failed to convince me that you are qualified to speak for the majority. It's not good enough to appear from nowhere on this forum, say you're a prostitute and that you love it and so do all your colleagues, and that's that. What about those women (oh, sorry, 'ladies') who have spoken about horrific experiences at the hands of clients and pimps? Are you saying that they're lying? That they only represent a minority? How do you know?

I do, when I'm trying to be polite

In answer to Molesworth, I do not claim to speak for an entire group, especially as diverse as this industry. I am however part of a fairly large section of ladies in regular contact with each other doing the same work and often seeing the same clientele. We are not really as vulnerable or hidden as you suggest. In fact, we are quite organised and have regular meetings, support networks and a private forum that encourages debate and research. Our work is (still) perfectly legal and we have a number of industry forums and platforms to communicate on, including actually discussing this thread which is why I joined in. I am glad to see a debate that appears less about knee jerk reactions. Yes I do keep informed, follow research and also try to understand the history of what I do. As far as this debate goes I am putting forward my personal experience and opinion of actually working as an escort. I wanted to put an actual ?face? on the debate and also counter the ongoing gagging we face by a certain wing of feminists who keep trying to label all of us as victims with no choice or alternative. I resent being ?undervalued? and labelled that way by Harman and Bindel. Like many of my ?colleagues?, I hold two including post graduate degrees and speak 4 languages so I also network with ladies across Europe and North America. Many of us do actually have a choice of how to earn a decent income. My personal reasons are that I no longer wanted to work long insane hours in a very male dominated environment with unspoken sexism. Now I have a lot of free time which really is a luxury in today?s hectic life. It gives me the opportunity to read, study further and spend a lot of time with my family.

PS: what is quaint to refer to yourself as a lady? Selling my foofoo forms part of a long tradition... lol

I am having trouble with my Broadband connection btw so the discussion evolved. I think it really bugs some of the moral crusaders that we can articulate the exact opposite they try to pontificate about. We are not exploited and with the odd exception enjoy what we consider a job. Trust me Mandamumu is only mentioning a small part of the reality which is nothing like the damsel in distress scenario Bindel and her cronies like to perpetuate. We are not Belle de Jours and yet we meet decent guys who pay us to actually give us pleasure. I am now in my sexual prime and ironically got my first proper stonking orgasm through paid work. Mind you like I say on my website ? among my most erogenous zones is my purse.

Neither Mandamumu perpetrate sexual slavery by working as escorts and probably do not stop it either. We tend to attract nice clients who like strong mouthy intelligent women who set clear parameters for their encounters.

How do you know that they aren't the majority?
If you won't believe us then who will you believe?

I believe that all hookers should be happy hookers. There is legislation in place to help with that, it just needs to be enforced efficiently.

When I use the word climax you may apply to have my nick changed to "Razzle" until then personal jibes are beneath you. Or do you run out of steam when you run out of propaganda?

Nope, that's me. You're the one pushing the "prostituted woman, all paid sex is rape" BS

I'd be interested to hear more about your group's research activity, MissHM.

You seem to imply that research which shows prostitution in a bad light is 'propaganda'. Whose propaganda is that, exactly?

Why do you think it's just men who pay for sex?
Why do think it's all about sex?

I see women and couples as well. I see everyone from the disabled to the able bodied and they come to me for a myriad of reasons.

Sometimes it is all about a quick shag, so be it, I don't mind. Just so long as they're clean and respectful. That really is the key thing.

Anyone who wants to "stick their cock into some skanky ho" need not apply. In reality, that type of person either can't afford my rates or can afford them but wouldn't pay that much.
Maybe that is the bigger problem, girls who need the price of a pack of nappies or £20 for a quick fix. In other words, poverty and drug addiction.

Feminism to me means that as a woman I have the right to choose for myself.

If your complaint is that women are forced into this profession by poverty then maybe you should be trying harder to make poverty history.

One thing I am a little puzzled about is why does it seem one woman ? one opinion appears to be perfectly valid assumption for Molesworth who obviously has little knowledge and rather confused ideas about the UK sex industry and with a thinly disguised revulsion for what we might do and yet we cannot speak for ourselves? I state my own opinion ? just like I hope Molesworth does not speak for the entire board here? This thread started with a really quite confused point, lumping the current legal sex scene here in the UK together with an article about Bangladesh. I repeat ? the fact that there are a large number of ladies who work freely and entirely voluntary as escorts in the UK has no direct impact or link to sexual slavery. The initial point made was could anyone involved with sex work be a feminist ? I personal believe I have every right to be both a feminist and bona fide strumpet.

I still think that some people are irked by the idea that many women chose to do this work and actually enjoy the financial and other rewards this job brings. I also categorically refute that any escort has any responsibility for anyone forced into sex work. Drawing such ill informed and quite frankly ridiculous analogies is akin to suggesting that anyone who eats at some of the restaurants here and abroad is directly responsible for the salve worker of some of the trafficked kitchen workers. I am also exasperated by the ongoing lack of proper research into real figures of sexual trafficking. I never suggested that this does not exist ? merely pointing out that current statistics that are repeated are completely unsubstantiated. Plus there is a lot of confusion about who is voluntarily or involuntarily trafficked? Many ladies specifically travel to the UK to work short periods of time as escorts to earn a lump sum and then return to for example Eastern Europe. If you want to comment on this you need to address the wider socio economic situations these women face. It does not however make them automatic victims!

One thing I am a little puzzled about is why does it seem one woman ? one opinion appears to be perfectly valid assumption for Molesworth who obviously has little knowledge and rather confused ideas about the UK sex industry and with a thinly disguised revulsion for what we might do and yet we cannot speak for ourselves? I state my own opinion ? just like I hope Molesworth does not speak for the entire board here? This thread started with a really quite confused point, lumping the current legal sex scene here in the UK together with an article about Bangladesh. I repeat ? the fact that there are a large number of ladies who work freely and entirely voluntary as escorts in the UK has no direct impact or link to sexual slavery. The initial point made was could anyone involved with sex work be a feminist ? I personal believe I have every right to be both a feminist and bona fide strumpet.

I still think that some people are irked by the idea that many women chose to do this work and actually enjoy the financial and other rewards this job brings. I also categorically refute that any escort has any responsibility for anyone forced into sex work. Drawing such ill informed and quite frankly ridiculous analogies is akin to suggesting that anyone who eats at some of the restaurants here and abroad is directly responsible for the slave worker of some of the trafficked kitchen workers. I am also exasperated by the ongoing lack of proper research into real figures of sexual trafficking. I never suggested that this does not exist ? merely pointing out that current statistics that are repeated are completely unsubstantiated. Plus there is a lot of confusion about who is voluntarily or involuntarily trafficked? Many ladies specifically travel to the UK to work short periods of time as escorts to earn a lump sum and then return to for example Eastern Europe. If you want to comment on this you need to address the wider socio economic situations these women face. It does not however make them automatic victims!

Eek my last post came out double when my dongle broke down.

Dittany who does give you the right to decide who can purchase my services? Why do people like you seem to feel entitled to ignore my chosen legal profession and seek to impose your narrow views?

I think that what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults whilst harming nobody is nobody else's damn business. I believe that I have the right to charge for a professional service and that all of my carefully vetted clients (men included) have a right to pay for it.

To put it more graphically...

If I want to open my legs to strangers for a wad of cash, I will. It is not your business.

Your question is carefully worded to be incredibly difficult to answer.
Do I have the right to buy a loaf of bread? Not really. It is something which is available to me all the while I follow the rules. If I verbally abuse the shopkeeper I will be thrown out of the shop and I will not be able to buy bread. It's not about rights, that is your way of providing yourself with an avenue of attack.

I don't think the feminist agenda helps here, there's a basic conflict: "my right to do what I want with my own body" versus "duty to other women by fighting against abuse".

Debating it as a moral issue just ties us all up in knots. Maybe it would be easier to work this out if we thought of it as a labour issue, rather than a feminist issue. Surely the answer is to legalise prostitution in order to regulate the abuses out of the industry. Unionisation is especially important - that's what gave all other workers with legal status protection against abusive employers. What we need is a female Bob Crow fighting back against sleazebag millionaires!

Or indeed, if you're Tory-minded and don't like the idea of unions, one could encourage entrepreneurship and social enterprises by making it easier for sex workers to go solo ...

MissHM, if you'd read the thread properly you would've seen the post in which I admitted that it was a mistake to post this question along with a link to the article about the Bangladeshi brothel. I think your criticisms of my being ill-informed and so on are superfluous as I've never claimed to be an authority on the issue. I started the thread so that I can explore the issue and develop a better understanding of it by discussing it with other contributors.

I completely agree that it is important to set this issue in its wider socio-economic context and that there is a link between poverty and prostitution.

It's a shame, however, that you show so little concern for those women who are not in as fortunate a position as you.

Ah yes the 'stonking orgasms in the boudoir' justification. Well that's ok then!
Just as long as we're all coming hard.

The point the escorts seem to be missing is that the sex industry perpetuates the idea that women are commodities to be bought. Commodities are objects to be used, however the quaint 'ladies' visiting this thread want to phrase it.

Surely the sex industry itself is a symptom of a society which has become confused about sex and equality.