How is it possible to be a feminist and support the sex industry?

[Molesworth]

I've just been reading this article from the guardian. Young girls are being sold to brothel keepers and made to take steroids so that they look older than they really are.

All my instincts say that the sex industry is just plain wrong. I know some feminists think it's OK (although obviously they wouldn't support practices like those described in the article). Are there any sex industry supporting feminists here? What's the rationale?

[victoriascrumptious]

should read "either way"

hic

[victoriascrumptious]

Was wracking my brains trying to remember the sub section of feminism that the whores on this thread seem to be extoling-it's sex postive feminism.

Personally without having strong feelings either was about women who make the choice to go into prostitution; I think it is really rude of people to dismiss them as trolls;-just as bad as men calling feminists per se 'man haters'

[victoriascrumptious]

MillyR: isnt the issue here that women who consider themselves to be feminists are telling other women who consider themselves to be feminists that they are not feminists? Or have I missed the bit where all the whores on this thread run on and announce that they are not feminists?

All very confusing for my head really.

[StepSideways]

MillyR - Your point would probably be best started as an AIBU thread so it can be discussed/argued properly.

[MillyR]

I am finding the feminist section frustrating, because so many people are coming on and posting who are not feminists. I don't know why that should be. Atheists don't go and disrupt threads in the spirituality section, and pig owners don't keep going on to chicken keeping threads to argue that people should keep pigs instead. So why are so many people who are not feminists coming on to this section? Why don't they start a thread in AIBU instead?

[jellybeans]

I think it is only the deluded that would think the sex industry is alright and a matter or choice/empowerment for women.

[Sakura]

I think apathy is the key word here. That's shocking about the police's lack of interest StepAside, but it doesn't really suprise me. I've been called a man-hater on this thread by women in a feminist section of a mother's website for arguing strongly against prostitution. God knows what kind of apathy you'd get in the real world. Really good to hear that you're doing something about it though, or trying to. THis thread has really made me want to start being an activist or something!

[Molesworth]

No, I'm glad you posted the link to Rebecca Mott's blog here FF. As you already said, it's incredibly important that the voices of women like Rebecca are heard in this debate.

[StepSideways]

why she taking it to another thread?

I've read every single post in this thread.. now getting left behind!

[frankfrankly]

Just realized I'm way behind the discussion and dittany's already talking about the post in a separate thread over here sorry about that. Feel free to ignore.

[StepSideways]

i know, i can't believe it, im asking the poppy people if they have a better contact in the police, the apathy is disgusting

[Molesworth]

Christ, step, you'd think that's something the police would take very seriously wouldn't you

[StepSideways]

Ironically I'm currently in the process of trying to get the police to accept what I believe is some evidence of attempted human trafficking, and so far they have passed the buck first to a website which doesn't even deal with that sort of thing, and then to someplace even more useless, they dont seem to want to be given this evidence, it's very frustrating...

[frankfrankly]

hello, I'm still following, but not had chance to join in. I found a really interesting post by an ex-prostitute about why she is pro-abolition of prostitution and though it would be good to bring it into the discussion. Her thoughts represent some that we haven't heard in this debate. We've had MissHM's happy-with-the-work perspective, but this is an ex prostitute writing from the other side of the fence. I think she really highlights why we don't hear from people like this so much, they are in pain and trying to sort their lives out and don't have time/energy/resources to fight a public debate.

Some of what she says....


"One of the major reasons that I am pro-abolition is because I live on a daily basis with the damage that the sex trade did to me.

But more, I know too many wonderful, strong and highly courageous women who live every day with the trauma forced into their bodies and minds by the sex trade.

And like most women who manage to exit, I know deep inside my heart there are women and girls who had so much to give the world who did not survive.

The sex trade is a system that built on that many of the prostituted women and girls will commit suicide, will lose their mental health, will get so ill from STDs they cannot continue, will have parts of their body wrecked by the violence, will become addicted to drugs, will be the living dead ? and of course will murdered by johns or profiteers.

And some people dare to call that ?sex work?. I have no words for that, except look exited prostituted women in the eye and make that this damage is just the risk of the ?job?.

But, usually when speaking of ?sex work?, exited prostituted women are excluded from the discussion, they are too full of rage, have too much pain, too much raw grief ? they are too bloody real."

[StepSideways]

sakura - yes, that was my understanding of what you said, i do think a lot of what you say makes sense, but, all the Pro-Dommes I know get paid and do enjoy their work, if i misunderstood then i apologise...

[Molesworth]

TSH - are you suggesting that legalization will make prostitution safer then, as legalizing abortion did?

Because I repeat once again, the evidence from places where prostitution has been legalized shows that the illegal trade grows (see previous post about Australia).

So legalization does not decrease the illegal trade and therefore does not make prostitution safer for the women, girls, men and boys involved.

And SGB, in response to your "let's not forget the men" remark, in almost all of my posts on this I have been careful not to exclude the (much smaller number of) men and boys involved in prostitution. But let's not pretend that this isn't mainly about women being used by men.

Sakura, I agree with everything you have said. There is no simple solution to this because it's all tied up with entrenched, global gender inequality and therefore 'solving' it means fighting against those inequalities on all fronts. We all agree that prostituted women (and girls and men and boys) should not be criminalized or stigmatized. I support the Nordic model - imperfect though it is - because I think it's important for the state to send out the message that it is not OK for human beings to be treated like this. We need a culture change: one in which treating human beings as if they are pieces of meat is not seen as inevitable, "a bit of a laugh" or "boys being boys".

[Sakura]

Oh, you thought I meant that women didn't enjoy BDSM? Sorry for being unclear. WOmen have all sorts of sexual preferences, I just doubt that a man paying for a prostitute's services is particularly interested in which preferences each particular woman has.

[Sakura]

StepSideways, sorry, what's your point? That some women enjoy BDSM therefore prostitution is justified?

[Sakura]

I think though, to a certain extent, stigmatizing the buyers could help. Let's make them feel ashamed. Let's educated men so that the normal, reasonable men think begin to agree with feminists and understand the complete de-humanizing effect of selling one person's body to another. Perhaps then, instead of the "wink wink, nudge nudge, Wey-hey-hey!" attitude that some men have about sex-work, they'd begin to actively look down on men who- for whatever reason- think paying for sex is appropriate. Instead they could say "MAn, don't do that. How would you feel if it was your sister or your daughter in there..?"

[StepSideways]

sakura - "But again, paying to be tied up and beaten is part of the man's sexual desires, nothing to do with the women's"

does your array of knowledge also span to BDSM, have you been in the scene long, which clubs do you visit?

Your statement suggests you know nothing about the subject, I'm speaking as someone who knows many Pro-Dommes (as a friend, not a customer!).