Taskmaster: if you don’t use ‘correct’ pronouns you’re a philistine…

[Sugarleaf]

…Who’s stuck in the past. To be ‘cool and curious’ you need to use non- biological sex based pronouns. And this is about a ‘certain generation.’ I mean I’m 32 and think it’s bollocks.

plus, as a bonus, ‘if you don’t like me, fine, as long as you use my correct pronouns.’

ffs

When 'educate yourself' is pronounced de haut en bas [that's French for 'being a patronising arse] it always makes me half-smile/ half-eyeroll, or both or something, because I bet there is a huge amount of education, both the book-learning kind and the university-of-life kind, shared between the women who post here regularly.

It's almost amusing to see visiting scolders talking down condescendingly to posters who have degrees/professional qualifications in the topic that the scolder is pontificating on, or a scolder arrogantly arguing points of law with a literal solicitor.😏

And of course there's the regular 'you've obviously never met a transwoman'..

I bet there is a huge amount of education, both the book-learning kind and the university-of-life kind, shared between the women who post here regularly.

I am more than happy to admit that I have learned one heck of a lot from this board and the women who post here about something that was, a few years ago, on the periphery of my consciousness.

This is the funniest thing I have read in ages.

From someone who has not listened and appears to never learn a thing!

I thought that she / they was the order you should be expected to use them in a paragraph. That first you use ‘she’, then you need to contort your memory and language and immediate consciousness and use they after that instead of ‘she’

Isn’t this how it was explained to us years ago on here?

The ideal is to use someone's name, not pronouns at all.

I think Chloe is now full-time they/them. But the day is young.

I don’t think she knows what philistine means.

I am not a person who is “hostile, indifferent, or lacking in appreciation for art, culture, music, literature, and intellectual pursuits” simply because I won’t have my language controlled by genderwang.

Pronouns aren't belief statements & if established conventions were a valid authority feminism wouldn't exist.

I can understand it more if the person who later becomes your spouse started off as an acquaintance... but even so, I'd probably go in and remove her surname ASAP!!

There was a comment made on some TV programme about the time when Alan Sugar sent out his Christmas cards and, presumably had given a list to his lackey and got them to sort it. All well and good and a nice gesture for his business associates; but somehow his own wife was on that list as well, so she ended up getting a card 'from Alan Sugar'. It's both hilarious and deeply sad at the same time.

No love, I'm not up for playing power games.

Call me whatever names you wish. Your language, your freedom to express yourself, I don't have to take any notice if I don't choose to.

That reminds of the time a TRA was using a scientific/medical paper to argue a point. (To be fair a link had been provided)

Someone else was arguing that this interpretation was incorrect. The sheer disdain directed at the woman disagreeing was quite eye opening. Obviously she was not intelligent enough to understand the paper. The conversation ended when the woman pointed out she was the author of the paper 😂

Philistine:
a person who is guided by materialism and is usually disdainful of intellectual or artistic values

If you call someone a philistine for not using your 'correct' ie random or wrong pronouns, then you are putting yourself into the category of 'intellectual or artistic'...which is massively narcisstic.

So as we see time and again, they think they are something more special than you TERFy dumbasses who know nothing.

Changing pronouns to suit your personal individual identity is indeed a statement about your beliefs.

I see. This goes for every single person?

Yes, you're right, I should have focused more on the 'gender fluid'... but even so, it's still performative when you announce to everybody that you're 'gender non-conforming' to the extent that it gets on to your Wikipedia page.

It also relies on the conviction that everybody has a 'gender' - and assumes that everybody else sticks rigidly and boringly to all of the stereotypes associated with that 'gender' (by which they usually mean sex, apart from when it's Schroedinger's gender, and they're deliberately seeking to dissociate it from sex).

Either way, it's essentially about being an individual and choosing to live your life as such. Nobody feels the need to mention that they are themselves, and are obviously not a different or generic person; so what's different with the whole 'gender' schtick.

Young, cool pop singer Mabel lives as herself - as do we all - and she doesn't feel the need to inform everybody at every turning that she is 'Mabel non-conforming', just because the majority of women who happen to be called Mabel (at least until the name came back into fashion) are now very elderly and are not famous pop singers. She doesn't need to identify as a 'young Mabel' or as an 'elderly Mabel' or as any other kind of Mabel who is and does what most Mabels are/aren't or do/don't do - she is just herself, which is absolutely as it should be for all of us.

Why would anyone claiming to be cool then seek to compel others' speech? That's a particularly uncool thing to do. Idiot that she is.

But respect for the right to do so isn't.

Oh please, all politeness conventions do so. The idea people perform these genuinely & free from social pressure all the time is ludicrous.

You can respect someone’s right to use whatever pronouns they like about themselves. They can also respect your right to not use them.

Your last paragraph works the other way too.

Listen, learn and educate yourself about why large number of people (of all ages) choose not to use incorrect or neo pronouns.

The point you are missing is using them as a sign of acknowledgment of another's right to individuality isn't a belief statement or even agreement in those choices.

And there we sit.

Sure. People can change their pronouns, it is their personal philosophical belief.

It is not respectful for them to expect anyone else support that change though. What they do in their own mind is not in question, it is authoritarian to expect others to support that belief to the point of acting as if they too believe it.

You can deny it all you want, but if you try to use emotional reasoning with discussion about respect, I think it is important to understand what it is someone is expecting to be respected.

By all means, if respect means others acting in support of your personal philosophical belief that doesn’t reflect material reality to you. Great. Just don’t try to shame others who disagree with your personal definition of the word respect.

And yet your point is directly contradictory.

If there is an expectation of what ‘politeness’ is that seems to me to be the epitome of social pressure.

Nina sulks every time she doesn't win

She probably doesn't have much control over her wiki page. As soon as she identified as a 'she/them' an enthusiastic ze/zer probably edited the page. Lots of quote can be taken out of context, too.

But Chloe hasn't come up with the concept of queer, non binary and trans all by herself, she's just followed a recent trend. How anyone who is just following a current trend can criticise anyone else for being intellectually or artistically lacking is beyond me. Shes picked an identity off a shelf and dismissed any criticism.