M&S toilet rapist

[ClimbTheLadder]

Turns out last 3 years whilst M&S management have insisted gender neutral ie. Mixed sex facilities are entirely fine they have been aware a teenage girl was raped in the toilets of their Oxford store.

Mumsnet doesn’t like archive links. If you put this link https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/26582305.oxford---man-20-jailed-raping-teenage-girls-public-toilets/ into archive. ph (remove the space) you can read the story.

Those poor girls 😢 sentence is much too short.

But aren't we told constantly that disabled toilets must have gaps so disabled people can be monitored in case of an accident?

Unfortunately this type of incident is not unusual and it’s one reason I spend so much time campaigning for single sex designs. Only toilet cubicles in a single sex environment are permitted to have door gaps which can prevent misuse. The door gaps can be vital for many people with ambulant disabilities and medical conditions (eg epilepsy and heart conditions) who use standard single sex toilets.

Please remember the victims who have just gone through a court case. Let’s just respect that this may not be the time to have heated arguments.

Accessible and disabled toilets where I live, that are not push-button electrically powered, typically have a grill fitted into the door, towards the bottom of the door. This can be removed for access if required. A gap under the door of these facilities is not usual at all (where I am), as they are designed according to similar regulations as single room, self contained toilet/hand washing facilities.

~ edited for clarity

Not for this first time this week…. There was the other thread about Cornell….

Rude maybe? but not offensive, don't exaggerate,.

No!

People need carers to be able to access those toilets too. And they may require extensive time there too. Particularly if someone needs to clean themselves up.

Not at all. Entirely incorrect. Another PP has already stated about the grill. There are also pull cord alarms.

Blimey alcove I thought there was a bar even you wouldn't go under but no I was wrong

you couldn't wait to rush in on the side of men

the attacks did not happen in single sex toilets

I hope that those girls have the support they need. They are very brave.

No the problem is a number of variants of just one situation: males going into female or mixed toilets. The more that is encouraged, the easier it is for abusers to exploit it.

A big reach and ridiculous

Some of us don’t give a fuck about gendered toilets & don’t believe it increases the chance of being raped.

What pray is a "gendered toilet"?

I don't see how letting males use women's toilets does NOT increase the chance of being raped.
If there are only women in a women-only space, the chance of rape is zero.
So the presence of men in a space designated for women, including men who ID as women, clearly increases the chances of being raped above zero.

Isn't that just a logical conclusion, not a political position/giving a fuck on the issue of 'gendered' toilets?

Why do you think women had to campaign for women’s toilets in the first place? Ever heard of the urinary leash??

The convolutions of logic required to argue that making it easier for men to access women’s spaces will make life safer for women are interesting to follow, despite inducing headaches.

Yes, it's like saying "Burglars aren't deterred by locks, therefore we shouldn't bother locking our doors."

I imagine that very few of the men pushing for men to be allowed in women's toilets actually believe that it doesn't create a safety risk.

There are opportunist criminals. If you create situations where men are alone in enclosed spaces near girls and women there’s surely an increased chance something could happen that wouldn’t otherwise. Rapists are not all the same. The guy who sees a vulnerable woman and takes advantage thinking there’s a slim chance of getting caught is different from the guy who’ll kick down a door and attack a woman in her home, for example.

You will get the tired old "no attacker is deterred by a sign on the door" argument

and the "no women's toilet is a 100% safe space" argument

and those statements are true BUT if a space is designated for women only, everyone knows a man should not be there. Including those men themselves. And if he's there, he's up to no good (unless he's an authorised cleaner, etc).

Men really don't, generally, want to go in women's loos. The nice men, the horrible men, the drunk men, the desperate-for-a-pee men, the young men, the old men. They just don't.

So why does a small minority of men feel entitled to?

The toilets in my local M&S used to be single sex and it was probably the only place in the shopping centre where you could be pretty certain that the toilets would be clean and usable.

Sadly they have had a recent refurbishment and now the toilets are fully enclosed cubicles and can all be used by both sexes. They have also situated them at the back of the store off a narrow corridor where there is no natural footfall. If there was an incident in one of the cubicles, absolutely nobody would notice unless they were heading to the toilet themselves.

So basically they’ve taken away perfectly good single sex provisions and turned them into dirty, unsafe areas. And that’s progress 🙄

This is stunningly offensive. Disabled people and their toilet use must be monitored or girls will be raped?! What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

That is the poster who used the horrendous Cornell rape case as an opportunity to make a totally unrelated point about trans-identifying males...

Grim

It’s a type of personality that can’t believe or doesn’t understand how much a civilised society relies on respect

To be fair to them they are such a massive feminist that they were objecting to anti-women U.K. Supreme Court rulings a couple of decades before the Supreme Court was even established. That's dedication, right there.

I have read the linked newspaper article about these two attacks and was absolutely appalled at the judges remarks towards the defendant.

"Judge Ian Pringle KC said: "You clearly have a huge number of admirers and I am satisfied that the Marley McCalmon who appears before me is very different to when you were 16."

This to an 18 year old who raped two women in separate attacks, 5 months apart, and still refuses to admit his guilt or express remorse.

In what way, I wonder, is he "very different" ?