Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #68

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

A second Employment Tribunal, Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing, has just been heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and ended on Thursday 1 October 2026. It is possible that a decision will be handed down before Christmas of this year.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against three senior managers who were witnesses in the first Employment Tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Thread 65: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583663-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-65 29 September 2026 to 30 September 2026

Thread 66: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584074-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-66 30 September 2026 to 1 October 2026

Thread 67: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584523-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-67 1 October 2026 to ????

You are of course talking nonsense about the physical differences between men and women, so let me give you an example. As my username suggests, I used to do a bit of cycle racing in the 70's/80's. I was a decent club cyclist, just that. In 1981, I set a PB of 21m21s on a 10 mile time trial course in Kent. At that time racing bikes were very simple, no aerodynamic aids. The person who currently holds the women's record on that course is Jo Rowsell, who has won 2 Olympic gold medals and 5 World Championship gold medals. This what she achieved - Q10/22 - 22:37 - Joanna Rowsell. So, an average male in 1981 was over a minute quicker than an elite female athlete in 2020.

Have you actually read the entire judgement? And do you understand legal language?
I ask because the judgement does say exactly that in legal language.
It also says that only having unisex changing and toilet facilities when theres space for separate sex facilities aswell as unisex facilities would be indirect sex discrimination against women

Every time.

Having had the pleasure of having sandie asses/yreat my autistic son at the A&E in the vic i can personally say she is one of the best, kindest and caring nurses who has the ability to put patients at ease.
The vic lost a rare gem of a nurse all in the name of mens wants

The vic lost a rare gem of a nurse all in the name of mens wants

And a man whose cleared off anyway. Whereas Sandie could have given another ten years or so service. It's madness. I hope that someone is taken to account in future.

Thank you!

I find the whole are women are just as strong/fast as men if they bother to train claptrap so fucking insulting to female athletes.

Elite top level results show women who devote themselves to their sport are 10-15% slower than men who do the same. Its not about how they train or how much they train it's about having different bodies.

Its why certain TiM in sport are on the record as saying they trained less when in the female category than when they were in the male category but finished higher.

We separate men and women running not because the glimpse of the outline of males genitals under running shorts would give the female participants a fit of the vapours but because no women would get to Olympics let alone get a sniff of the final if it was mixed sex.

If the PP is actually a woman who believes she could fight off men of even average fitness she is delulu.

Erm no I haven't as it doesn't exist. There is no passage in the judgement where the SC makes any comment about the legality/ legal meaning of signs on facilities.

I like cake, does anyone have any good cake recipes?

I think the thing I like most about cake is that its nice to eat but it isn't food.
I mean it can't be food can it because the food hygiene standards don't have a passage about the legality / legal meaning of cake.

How about a pumpkin pie recipe in honour of October and Halloween?

Pastry:

• 1 1/3 cup all-purpose flour
• 1 tablespoon granulated sugar
• 1/2 teaspoon salt
• 1/4 cup cold lard , cubed
• 1/3 cup cold unsalted butter , cubed
• 3 tablespoons ice water (approx)

Personally, I cheat and buy a ready made pie crust!

Filling:

• 1 1/2 cup pumpkin purée
• 3 eggs
• 1 cup 35% cream
• 2/3 cups granulated sugar
• 2 tablespoons maple syrup
• 1 teaspoon pumpkin pie spice
• 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon
• 1/4 teaspoon each ground ginger , nutmeg and salt

Topping (optional):

• whipped cream with 1 tsp vanilla and 2 tsp maple syrup

Pastry: In food processor, pulse together flour, sugar and salt until combined; pulse in lard, a few cubes at a time, until mixture resembles fine crumbs. Pulse in butter, a few cubes at a time, until mixture is in coarse crumbs about the size of large peas, 6 to 8 pulses. Drizzle in ice water; pulse to form ragged dough. Wrap in plastic wrap; press into disc. Refrigerate until chilled, 1 hour.

Position racks in centre and bottom of oven; preheat to 400°F.

On lightly floured work surface, roll out dough into 13-inch circle; fit into 9-inch pie plate. Trim, leaving 3/4-inch overhang; fold overhang under and flute edge. Prick bottom all over with fork. Freeze until firm, about 10 minutes.

Line crust with parchment paper; fill with pie weights or dried beans. Bake on bottom rack for 20 minutes. Remove parchment paper and pie weights; bake until golden, 10 to 13 minutes. Remove from oven; reduce temperature to 350°F.

Filling: Meanwhile, line dinner plate with 2 layers of paper towel; spread pumpkin purée over top. Top with 2 more layers of paper towel; press to absorb any liquid. [I’ve never done this myself]

Scrape pumpkin purée into bowl; whisk in eggs, cream, sugar, maple syrup, pumpkin pie spice, cinnamon, ginger, nutmeg and salt. Scrape into crust. Bake on centre rack until top is no longer shiny and edge is set yet centre still jiggles slightly, 40 to 45 minutes.

Let cool completely on rack; refrigerate until chilled.

No but there was that ruling about jaffa cakes and the Inland Revenue wanting them to identify as biccies. They can be as flat and chocolate covered and cellophane wrapped as you like but structurally and legally they are cake.

Anyway. Dairy Cookbook Victoria sandwich is my go-to.

Specsavers would do well to sponsor the one poster on this thread incapable of reading the S.C Judgement correctly.🤓

IANAL and the Supreme court ruling didn't say in words that Trans Women are Not Women; Trans Women are Men. But that was clearly implied by their ruling. Well IMHO. I dare say others would disagree.

@DrBlackbird Yes, Halloween! We need parkin. And soul cakes. Quick, to the kitchen!

It said woman equals biological woman but didn't specify if this applies when the word is sung by an operatic tenner, or sky written by a biplane or spelt out in magnetic letters on a fridge door so actually it doesn't mean it really so ha.

I might be able to find my mother’s October Cake recipe- it’s a sponge cake but one where the butter is melted rather than beaten and was the mainstay of many many birthday cakes over decades.
I’ve got a meeting now but will look it out after that.

It said woman equals biological woman
No it didn't.

but didn't specify if this applies when the word is sung by an operatic tenner, or sky written by a biplane or spelt out in magnetic letters on a fridge door

Correct

That was a fascinating case, it’s worth reading about the details of it!

That pumpkin pie sounds good. But I would need to buy a food processor and pie weights. Also not quite fool proof enough for me as I would be likely to cook the paper towel in with the pumpkin puree.
Also. What is in pumpkin spice? Does it make you glaze over and slump on the pavement?

Bill Murray and a large American rodent have inexplicably popped into my head.

Maaaaate. It did say a woman was an adult human female for all intents and purposes. I don’t know why you are so adamant it didn’t. Why not go have a nice cup of tea and a bun. I always get confused and irritable when my blood sugar is low too. It might help you

Yes, is it like cinnamon and nutmeg or something? What spices go in pumpkin pie?

A good parkin recipe very welcome.

They produced a giant Jaffa cake in court to demonstrate they are cakes not biscuits.

For the last time -

"It is not the role of the court to adjudicate on the arguments in the public domain on the meaning of gender or sex, nor is it to define the meaning of the word “woman” other than when it is used in the provisions of the EA 2010. It has a more limited role which does not involve making policy. The principal question which the court addresses on this appeal is the meaning of the words which Parliament has used in the EA 2010 in legislating to protect women and members of the trans community against discrimination". https://supremecourt.uk/uploads/uksc20240042judgmentupdated16f5d72e76.pdf

The court clarified what the words ‘sex’, ‘woman’ and ‘man’ mean within the Equality Act 2010, so that its provisions protecting people against discrimination can be interpreted coherently and consistently. It expressly distinguished that task from settling wider debates about the meaning of sex and gender, or defining ‘woman’ beyond that statutory context.

The court did not rule that ‘woman’ means ‘biological woman’ in every context, nor did it establish a general rule about what the word ‘women’ means on signs.