Two-year-old euthanised in Netherlands in first assisted dying case of its kind

[IwantToRetire]

I'm not going to select any part of the article but just post the link for those who want to read
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/netherlands-infant-2-euthanised-assisted-37709218

I am sorry you have friends who have had to make this difficult choice and I can see why you’d need to believe they died with minimal suffering and pain. That the NLs process is free of complications and abuses. I am sorry for your loss.

(I am sure you understand that a friend’s partner’s opinion of how well they do their job isn’t technically impartial oversight.)

Christ almighty, there are no levels to which you will not sink are there?

You are, I think, the single most patronizing and yes, I come back to the word, dishonest poster I have met here because you will distort information, conflate different situations to serve your own agenda and denigrate other people's experiences in order to push your own agenda.

I'm out.

This country is short sighted, unholistic, and almost anti-family . Better building regulations and other factors would save huge amounts of money that will otherwise have to be spent anyway.

I wonder if there has been any comparative research done with different countries?

(I am sure you understand that a friend’s partner’s opinion of how well they do their job isn’t technically impartial oversight.)

My friend had more observational and intellectual integrity than you will ever comprehend.

@ScrollingLeaves I don't know. Not in that field any more for a long time.

Hang on, I’m not judging, you’re the one saying Canada’s system is bad.

Saying there is no data isn’t a judgement, it’s a fact.

Of course companies don’t exist on the same scale in the NL as in Canada, Canada has more than twice the population.

Look, this is how a debate goes. I make a point in favour of my view, you make a point in favour of your view. I don’t need to be making points in favour of your view for you, that’s for you to do. Yes my posts are against assisted dying and euthanasia because that is my opinion. Your posts are for assisted dying and euthanasia because that is your opinion.

Cherry picking doesn’t apply in a debate, it applies in scientific research to get to a truth or consensus of facts.

In short, neither of us is being balanced or making equal points for and against. We are expressing our opinions and why. I have acknowledged some of your points as you have mine.

I am sorry you feel that way. I was acknowledging your loss in a genuine fashion. I truly meant no disrespect.

Yes, I am sure they do. I wasn’t questioning them, merely saying that you must know that impartial oversight would involve teams of 3rd party evaluators inspecting all clinics and no matter how observant and ethical one tech support worker is, they cannot possibly see everything that goes on even in their one clinic, much less all the clinics in the NLs.

It says it all that you will so very quickly invalidate the intellectual and professional integrity of people who have direct personal experience of the topic so fast, when it counters your point.

But I haven’t invalidated their professional opinion or integrity, I am saying that the opinion of one tech support worker at one clinic is insufficient to make any kind of judgement on all of assisted dying in the Netherlands. It’s just common sense. It’s like taking the opinion of one Ryanair aircrew worker on Ryanair safety as sufficient judgement for a safety rating for the entire airline.

Or taking one of the examples I quoted in the paper of assisted dying events that went wrong and claiming all assisted dying gets botched. I haven’t done that, those were just examples to show it can go wrong.

Sure,y you aren’t trying to do the mirror image with your friend’s partner’s tech worker in euthanasia opinion either? To argue it often goes perfectly? They aren’t in a position to be able to know.

@ScrollingLeaves there are concerns with the drugs, there is no doubt that in some case but don't forget that there are protocols for what happens if they're not effective within a time limit in the NL, and that the overwhelming vast majority of cases are completed well

"The Regional Euthanasia Review Committees (RTE) in the Netherlands found that fewer than 0.1% of reported cases fail to meet due care criteria—recording just 7 problematic cases out of 10,341 procedures (about 0.06%) in the most recent annual reporting cycle. 1] in the most recent annual reporting cycle."

@ScrollingLeaves again, this is an area that is extremely sensitive so it would come to light fast if there were problems.

I respectfully disagree that in a general way, as I see it from the outside, this poster
has intended disrespect. And if the pp’s posts are one sided, that is for a reader to mull over. Everyone knows to listen to various views.

I for one am grateful for the additional information about the research on The Liverpool Pathway, and other various research on assisted dying/euthanasia/ capital punishment drugs. I shall look up more.

I am also very grateful to your counter weighting arguments. This thread has been very helpful.

My personal experience is of care of relatives who were terminally ill but not with the very worst illnesses entailing years of incapacity and terrible suffering. They died unpleasantly, without assistance, but possibly finally helped at the last hour with morphine.

this could be a useful report to read, in English @ScrollingLeaves
https://english.euthanasiecommissie.nl/the-committees/annual-reports-and-judgments

I have been in pure agony 24/7 for the best part of a year a few years ago, and I still deal with chronic pain now, though I have found ways to manage it. I truly was suicidal and was struggling to get through each hour. However this story terrifies me, as like previous poster have said, if provisions for pain management are less available, more expensive, it could easily push people to assisted dying.

I was inconsolable from pain, fatigue and not able to think clearly at points, just spending my time rocking and crying from pain - the thought that my husband could have signed of on ending my life at that point, it's terrifying.

Or parents who are abusive, have MBP, it opens up an awful possible reality at the bottom of the slippery slope. We already have an issue with women coerced and forced into abortions they don't want...

@CoatiCutie “I was inconsolable from pain, fatigue and not able to think clearly at points, just spending my time rocking and crying from pain -“

That sounds absolutely awful and I’m sorry for your suffering.

Some people would choose to die instead of living in those circumstances. Not everyone has a partner or family willing to help them. Even if they did have someone, it might not be enough to want to keep on living.

It’s about giving people a choice and autonomy on when they want to end their life.

I agree with the view that people should have a choice - I just worry about a system where that isn't the reality. How long before people get a terminal diagnosis, or bad prognosis, for their child, and there is pressure to euthanise them before things get bad, or to free up bed space, to not cost the NHS money that is ultimately 'pointless' financially as the patient will still die. What about when those treatment options are no longer available as there's deemed not enough of a chance at the patient living, or living long enough. Who can put value on a persons life, or remaining time of it?

The idea in itself I agree with, but I struggle to see how it would ever be more than an ideal, and the thought of how it could be utilised terrifies me.

@CoatiCutie “I agree with the view that people should have a choice”

That’s good! I do understand your concerns. They don’t make me not want to have assisted dying and euthanasia.

A person owns their body and life, so they should control how and when it ends.

Yep.

I've been in the position of having a doctor with kind, sad eyes telling me that my child likely isn't going to survive and even if he did, he'd probably have brain damage and not be the same 8 year old as he was before.

It was the worst experience of my life but I felt comfort in knowing that the medical professionals were truly doing everything they could do to save his life and in the end, they did save his life.

If assisted dying was an option, would they have tried as hard? Would they have instead suggested assisted dying? Even pressured me if it was the norm knowing it would save money? Honestly, that would've likely finished me off at the time.

His prognosis was poor and in the end, they were wrong about him in multiple ways. How many people, especially those not able to decide for themselves such as children would die that they were wrong about?

Thank you very much @ReleaseTheDucksOfWar
I shall copy that to read later.

About getting hold of the drugs for executions in the US as opposed to drugs for euthanasia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67150566

The situation hasn't improved for the US.

The drugs used in euthanasia on the other hand are well sourced, good quality and in date (as well as more effectively administered)

Thank you. That is interesting but horrible. I’d prefer a firing squad. The sight of that bed with so many straps is the creation of a nightmare. Maybe with some of the concocted, untried drugs, the person being killed if fully conscious but paralysed. No one would know.

America looks sick from this.

What exactly is the euthanasia used on animals? If they have the drugs for an animal as big as a horse or a big dog why not for a human? Maybe those drugs are not as benign as we’d like to think either.

Not sure actually.

The death squad is also highly problematic. The prisoner is meant to be blindfolded and have a target pinned over the left ventricle of the heart. But there seem to be a number of reasonably reliable stories where all three of the shots (from a fairly close range by trained people, mind you) have unaccountably missed leading to prolonged and agonizing deaths. Ill try to find the BBC article later.

The implication has been that 1) some of the sharp shooters have simply not wanted to kill another person. And 2) sometimes there's been a revenge factor, eg in the case of a black man who shot a white police officer.

@ScrollingLeaves did I quote this article above? it's about the US hunt for drugs for executions. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67150566

I did like the line that when one state execution team managed to cadge some from another team, they sent a thank you saying "you're a lifesafer".

Essentially because of the use the drugs are put to, the supply of reliable drugs died up and they scrabble around and sometimes try nice interesting experimental concoctions of drugs.

In the case of one murderer, Joseph Wood, "the procedure took almost two hours and resulted in him being injected 15 times". (this does not happen with assisted dying in well run countries!)

I can't find the proper BBC article about the problems with the firing squad but did find this : https://www.npr.org/2025/05/08/nx-s1-5389846/firing-squad-south-carolina-death-penalty-execution

Admittedly 2 minutes is a lot lot faster death than either Joseph Wood or Pike, but it's a pretty bad two minutes and the chances of trained marksmen missing a highlighted target at that distance are pretty small.