Two-year-old euthanised in Netherlands in first assisted dying case of its kind

[IwantToRetire]

I'm not going to select any part of the article but just post the link for those who want to read
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/netherlands-infant-2-euthanised-assisted-37709218

@bababamama On the face of it, I don't disagree with the parents and Dr's decision. It's much more humane to end someone's suffering immediately than starve them to death (which is what 'withdrawal of support' means). It's not a quick or easy death, even for a sickly premature newborn.

I know/agree.

Because I don't presume to think for other women, feminists.

Lately there seems to be a misapprehention about FWR that everyone has to have an opinion and set up a soap box postion about it..

If you cant make any connection then just move on. You call it plopping, I call it sharing information.

Its really sad that so many think they need to be told in advance how to respond or to be "educated" as to why something is worth discussing.

"The whole point of a forum is to be able to discuss issues, news or whatever with a group of people, in this instance GC feminists."

Another reference by a regular member about this group being aimed at GC feminists

Report it to MN then. You've already had a thread about this on Site Stuff and MN replied and clarified. Isn't that enough?

After watching my own mother die a slow, torturous death that took 6 weeks. If I had the choice to not put my children through that utter torment I think I’d do it. Also if one of my kids was in daily torturous pain with no chance of survival I think I’d do the same as those poor parents. I remember when my grandad was dying my grandma said to me.. we didn’t let the bloody dog suffer like this so why does he have too. I know it’s not as cut and dried as that and people would exploit and it’s a slippery slope and all that. It just seems unfair in some situations. My mum was begging for someone to end it at the end and it was just traumatising.

I'm afraid I am not sure. Much like euthanasia, in principle I think it should be possible. I practice, in the UK at this time I have no faith what so ever it would be safe to introduce particularly for vulnerable groups within society.

as to the infant the article is about, I think PP have maybe raised the real issue about it, is that were the wrong interventions taken much earlier in life.

But again is this was the UK, and in some way in the future an option like this could be make available to parents, I have no faith in the UK being able to create a system that could be trusted.

You could see how one case could then drift into an attitude about is it worth the cost to the NHS to helping a child with multiple issues continue to live.

I have reported it. Let's see what happens.

That poor family.

All of them have undergone pain and suffering during the time, with them hoping that she would get better, that there would be some chance.

I think they finally realised she wasn't going to get better and that it was kinder by far to let her go.

Reading the newspaper article it seems that doctors disagreed about whether the child was actually distressed or suffering. Someone may be profoundly disabled and not be distressed or in pain.

Thanks - I didn't realise this was a targeted campaign.

How underhand.

There is, although this particular case does not directly raise feminist issues.

In a new review of more than 100 UK cases, we find that despite claims: ‘mercy killings’ are not the wanted, ‘hastened’ deaths that need assisted dying. They are overwhelmingly violent domestic homicides of women, by men: and show that our society is still poor at detecting and responding to domestic abuse. How will these men who kill behave when the state offers lawful death ?

https://theotherhalf.uk/safeguarding-women-in-assisted-dying

I don't think it's right to call it 'assisted dying' for such a young child, or for anyone without capacity to consent. This was not a child who wanted to die but needed assistance. This was a child who was euthanised because the parents and doctors considered their suffering to be unbearable with no hope of improvement. The child was PTS.

It's easy to make a case that for this child it was the right thing to do, although according to the article, the second opinion doctor said palliative care would be effective.

Stepping back from the facts of this particular case, this does indirectly relate to feminist concerns around assisted dying because it's killing a person who cannot consent. Care homes are full of old women with dementia, with only a smattering of men. This is a heart rending case which could be used to justify a slippery slope I do not want the UK to go down.

What is FWR?

if the doctors left my baby without intervention when he was born he wouldn't be here now either, they didn't know the outcome with him until they did intervene, same for this baby. thankfully DS is now well. you can't let every poorly baby die because some won't recover.

I don't think I will interact with you any more discussing things is great if you give clarity in what you mean. I asked you a direct question that you refused to answer and was dismissive I was interested in being part of your thread, to.read your Pov which you haven't given. And I don't think i disagreed with anything.

The thread is really interesting but the arguing is tiresome! Move on if you don’t want to discuss it.

I think this case absolutely raises feminist issues - both around the medical care provided for extremely premature babies and euthanasia of young children with a very poor prognosis.

The time that worried me most in my pregnancies was after 23 weeks, gradually easing off as the prognosis for a premature baby improves. I know there are many other ways that people end up with severely disabled children and not everyone feels the same about the possibility of a severely disabled child. For me, it was horrible to know that I would probably not have any say in whether medical treatment was offered and the outcome could completely change the course of my life. As unfair as it is, it would almost certainly have been my career that ended to become a carer, because I am a woman. I'd have been on mat leave and it quickly becomes the default to be the carer.

But this poor child was not losing out, she was being spared a terrible life with no hope of improvement.

Truly happy to learn that your baby is alive and well. But respectfully you have no idea about the particular circumstances around this childs birth/life.

Assisted dying has the potential to become an equality issue for several protected characteristics, especially if legislation is poorly drafted. Sex, race, disability, age... Anything where there are people with the view that some members of society are of higher value than others or that some people are a useless burden.

It's not only a matter of legal loopholes that allow outside coercion: people can internalise views like that and hold them about themselves.

And with regard to this particular case: whether or not you feel that ending the life of a hopelessly impaired infant is justified in itself, it needs to be recognised as a significant breach in the principle that an assisted death should be voluntary only.

God, I’m sorry you had to go through that. Even the thought is heart wrenching. I have a friend with a young child with a seriously life limiting condition. He’s presently got, what seems to be, a very good quality of life. But at some point in the next decade of so he will deteriorate significantly, and this will inevitably lead to a painful and undignified death. I know of my friend had the choice to make this quick and comfortable, she would do it in a heartbeat.

Feminism and womens rights. Its the old name for this board

The cut off for treating very premature babies has dropped significantly over recent decades. Perhaps this wasn’t a good idea?

All of this. There is a sense in modern medicine that preserving life no matter the quality of life in extremely medically invasive ways is the ethical thing to do. I don’t see how we arrived at this place.

Absolutely, can you imagine the work and resources, blood sweat and tears that went into sustaining the childs life, ensuring that they lived and now the agony of mkaing a decision to take the life away.

No one wants to hear this though, that sometimes nature should take its course.