Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

The 'we don't even like you' is very much from the 'and everyone says you smell' school of persuasive and mature argument.

But as for the rest of MN being rational? Whaaat? Now I do take issue with that. Have you seen the royal family threads? They are crayyyzeeee!

Where?
(Rhetorical question)
I love the florid, over-written, pompous language you use. It suggests to me you are very young and extremely arrogant.
<< waves a rabid pitchfork with glee >>

not to mention the forest of rabid pitchforks being waved at them ... they are so brave!

Transphobia affects all trans people. Notably the absolute lies told about why they exist.

Trans men are often mistaken for trans women, and have been very much affected by the new transphobic guidance on toilets. So have non-binary and many gnc people.

As if public toilets are safe spaces. As if changing rooms are. We have lockable cubicles for a reason.

There's zero justification for all the ignorant, malicious nonsense written about trans men on this forum. It's the proof you need that you're a cult.

Trans men being included in any form of health are messaging elicits howls of rage on here. Tampons being provided in the Gents too.

None of that is justified as 'reasonable concerns' about women's facilities. This forum attracts plenty of normal people, yes, but many more post all day about every aspect of trans lives.

You can't even acknowledge my son as my son. That's got nothing to do with you, but you have to say it. Because it isn't about women's spaces at all.

Terfism is a cult devoted to investigating, reporting on and theorising about trans people. Its currency is outrage and hatred. And if you ever step away, you will realise that it's utterly pointless.

Trans people aren't an ideology, they're individuals. And they will keep on being born. Younger generations know how normal trans people are - and will fight for them.

You're not just in a cult, it's a doomsday cult. Forever waiting for an end which will never come, and sainthood which will never be conferred.

What I find particularly sad about @TransParentlyAnnoyed 's daughter is that her fantasy is of being a gay male. I have some gay male friends, and basically they are not interested in women's bodies because they like male genitalia. Even if your poor girl puts herself through the horror-show that is phalloplasty, she still won't have a functioning penis that bears much resemblance to the male variety. I hope she has a happy life, because unless she finds a woman she feels. happy with or a bi man who finds her attractive, she's narrowed her dating pool greatly.

A belief in verifiable reality is not a cult. Terfist views are absolutely ordinary, based in biological reality, and shared by the vast majority of humans worldwide. It's like flatearthers saying those who believe the world is round are a cult.

But if teacakes are compulsory, well, that is cultish. I am now concerned that I will be shunned by Terfdom cuz I just do not like Tunnocks Tea Cakes.

@khadinner

"Well, I've yet to see a cult form around people who don't believe something"

Yes, I think you're spot on

The Doghouse can get quite spicy too

@TransParentlyAnnoyed "Trans men being included in any form of health are messaging elicits howls of rage on here. Tampons being provided in the Gents too".

Crikey! The hyperbole, and that's before we get to the 'doomsday' cult accusation.

Edited to add speech marks

'Transphobic guidance'...oh dear, the fox botherer and followers have done a number on you, @TransParentlyAnnoyed. Whilst the document is guidance, it's guidance on how to apply the law, as per the EA 2010, as clarified by the FWS judgment.

It is certainly not transphobic to tell people to use the single sex spaces relating to their biology, rather than their assumed gender. Laws on how to behave have to deal with reality, and everyone is either male or female (yes, even those with DSDs), so that's how it works.

It's always so hyperbolic that it's always, 'trans people exist, get over it', making out that laws telling people to use facilities conforming to their sex somehow vaporises those people calling themselves trans from existence. Yes, and they still will whatever the laws of the country. Being told that you are, and always will be, your birth sex doesn't wipe you from the earth; it's material reality.

Transphobia is abuse for being trans, or being denied housing, a job or other opportunities because of being trans. It isn't being told you have a biological sex and the laws of the country are based on that reality.

If trans people can't cope with the reality of the sex they are, then they need support to help them deal with that, not pandering to and told they're being persecuted if people and the law see them as their sex, not gender.

Oh, and a transman who fancies blokes? That's a straight female.

😮 I'm sorry but you can't be in the cult, if you can come up with an acceptable alternative to The Tunnocks, we'll have a vote but I'm not going lie, things are not looking good.

I just do not like Tunnocks Tea Cakes 🥹

It doesn’t matter whether we think that your child is a son or not, but do you treat them differently now so are seeing them as a son? If so- how?

Also a phalloplasty is an extreme surgery that has almost 100% chance of causing unwanted and unnecessary painful
side effects. Your child will grow through their dysphoria to be able to accept themselves to the point where they don’t need surgery.

You're not just in a cult, it's a doomsday cult. Forever waiting for an end which will never come, and sainthood which will never be conferred.

Your ridiculous hyperbole is both overdone and, dare I say it, a bit...erm...culty.

I'm horrified by the harassment and violence which he's suffered for being trans.

I have lost zero friends since my son came out.

Which one is it? Do people unanimously accept your child as trans or do they abuse him?

Also: gay men are not interested in transmen. Your son is setting himself up for a very hard dating life. Unless of course he's okay with dating only other transmen like himself.

Might as well face it, you're addicted to hate.

I'm addicted to truth and the full freedom to completely explore myself.

As if public toilets are safe spaces. As if changing rooms are. We have lockable cubicles for a reason.

This is always an interesting cult mantra too.

What's the difference between locked cubicles in the ladies toilets and the male toilets?

And the mantra of 'safe spaces'! They are single sex spaces' as allowed in the EQA2010.

I don’t think you can get much more cult like behaviour than demanding that people act as if someone’s subjective belief that is not based on material reality is material reality.

A person who demands that they or anyone else are referred to using opposite sex language to their bodies sex category is acting in as an authoritarian would. And one that then uses direct emotional abuse and emotional coercion to force others to act in the way they demand, when it is not law and it is unreasonable, reinforces that authoritarian behaviour.

To then declare that a person’s unwillingness to comply to those demands is hateful is DARVO. To say a group rejecting those unreasonable demands is a cult, is DARVO.

It is laughable that the ones in the cult are the ones NOT wanting to sterilise and mutilate children. Which is rather a doomsdayish attitude. Indeed, wanting to sterilise and mutilate children is rather 'end of times'.

Oh well. Id rather be in a cult that wants kids to grow up, achieve adulthood and have the best life they can without living a lie. What a monster.

As if public toilets are safe spaces. As if changing rooms are.

More contradiction and incoherence and emotional manipulation.

If these are not ‘safe spaces’, why is it the some people with transgender identities demand access to them based on their perceived safety needs? Or are female single sex provisions just safe spaces for those who are male and not for those who are female?

As the SC explained, when facilities are split on sex, they are split on sex. There is no competing priority there.

If they are split on gender-re-assignment, then the same, no competing priority.

Where we do start having competing priority is when people with gender-reassigment decide that they don't want to use the facility for their sex, and so should co-opt the accessible facility. By doing this, they are conflicting with the protected characteristic of disability.

Care to quote where they 'explained that'?

https://supremecourt.uk/cases/judgments/uksc-2024-0042

Leading up to paragraph 264 which starts: For all these reasons, this examination of the language of the EA 2010, its context and purpose, demonstrate that the words “sex”, “woman” and “man” in sections 11 and 212(1) mean (and were always intended to mean) biological sex, biological woman and biological man.

For the full explanation you will have to read the preceding 263 paragraphs where it sets out its full reasoning.

Paragraph 199 explains how they are separate characteristics for example:

199. Accordingly, the EA 2010 recognises sex and gender reassignment as distinct and separate bases for discrimination and inequality, giving separate protection to each. Those who have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment are referred to as “a transsexual person” (section 7(3)(a)), not as a “trans” woman or man. There is no distinction drawn in section 7 or elsewhere between those for whom the relevant process would involve reassignment male to female or female to male. In other words, it is the attribute of proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassignment, which is the common factor, not the sex into which the person is reassigned.

Really, it's worth a read. They didn't do this on a whim. 5 Supreme Court Judges fully reasoned it all out.

You’re not just concerned about men accessing women’s spaces though are you? Whenever anyone on here is challenged they just hide behind “but I’m a feminist, I’m fighting for women’s rights, I don’t hate anyone”. Lies. Some women can feel strongly about women’s rights, have valid concerns about women’s safety, and believe it is impossible to change your biological sex, but still sympathise with the struggle trans people endure and show them respect. I’m one of those women. However the MN cult goes much further, you lot won’t admit it, but you hate trans people, especially trans women. It is true bigotry. I think it stems from the already prevalent hatred of men on here. Some of them now wanting to be women is just absolutely intolerable to you due to your pre-existing hated of them. It’s also evident from the multiple threads about hating snowflakes and the “blue-hair brigade” etc, as we all know many trans & NB people would fit this description.

I once commented on one of the bazillions of threads about trans women using women’s toilets on here. I suggested they should use the disabled and new organisations should have a third gender neutral toilet put in when they’re having their toilets built. This would keep women’s toilets for biological women only and it would protect trans women from potential assault and attacks in the men’s. A feminine presenting trans woman is obviously at risk in the men’s. Some of the replies really disgusted me. They were dripping with barely suppressed hatred, a total lack of care about the safety of these HUMAN beings. It seems the MN cult has completely dehumanised these people. Its really gross. The comments included stuff like “it’s not our problem if they get attacked in the men’s”, “if they don’t want to get assaulted then don’t dress like a woman” (imagine the rage if someone suggested a woman is asking to get assaulted because of what she’s wearing), “this would inconvenience disabled people” (less than 1% of the population is trans, they’re not exactly going to be causing queues round the corner 🤣). Those replies said it all really. These people wouldn’t give a shit if a trans woman was raped. Many, I suspect, would secretly (or maybe not secretly on MN) think they deserved it or were asking for it. You can’t argue that’s not pure hatred and transphobia

And by the way, @TransParentlyAnnoyed, there's no such thing as "Terfism". Just good old fashioned Feminism, Radical or otherwise, a political ideology I am proud to espouse. The clue's in the acronym, though I'm not particularly interested in or impressed by the "Trans Exclusionary" bit you've childishly tacked on, in the proud tradition of unimaginative playground bullies down the ages. I'm not all that interested in Transpeople or their dodgy ideological power grabs, actually. I just wish they'd stop trying to destroy the few protections we've managed to extract from the misogynistic, heteronormative state over the last couple of centuries.

I struggle to believe that. It's been an overriding theme on FWS for many years that trans people should campaign for a third (fourth, really, as accessible are third) space. And that we'd have supported them wholeheartedly in that campaign.

You may have missed the TRAs telling us that this idea is transphobic.

I trust you reported the posts you claim to have seen?

Ah, yet another misogynist who doesn't think women should to expect to get support, protection or even Feminism based on our sex until we've sorted out the needs of the trans people who sought to take those things from us.

The misogyny and "women come last" is so ingrained they don't even see it.

I'm sorry that Feminism makes neo Sexists like trans people sad, but I'm afraid the issue is that they are sexist not that they are trans.

The simple truth is that if TRActivists and TRAllies didn't have sexist ideas about what type of personality belongs in men's or women's spaces, they'd have none of the problems that seem to them to be so insurmountable. They are punching themselves in the face and blaming everyone else.