Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

I agree that no genital flashing occurred.

I still think what I said earlier is important. It wasn't immediately apparent that he wasn't flashing, a lot of people did think he was showing a bollock and the reaction from a lot of women would have been immediate, and made no better by later finding out it was actually his leg.

I also think of men like Greyson Perry, who in their own words have made it clear that they don't need to flash their actual genitals at women (or children, at the cancer hospital no less) to be displaying a fetish to a non-consenting public.

I think any woman who saw Fred sat like that could be forgiven for that heart stopping moment where you think you are being flashed. It's still a show of power over women, and a display of harmful male fetishistic behaviour IMO.

Well that doesn't work at all.

To call an adult human female a 'cis woman' would imply that she is merely a subset of the group of humans whose reproductive systems are organised around egg production.

Which we all know is nonsense. Because no members in this group.

If men can also be women, the word 'woman' is pretty pointless and the te 'cis woman' even more so

I agree and understand why women are on edge around this kind of behaviour.

Agreed. I don’t think his intention was to flash genitalia. I believe he enjoyed thinking he was making people uncomfortable. But there was definitely no upskirting involved!

Objectification for male gratification is not and never will be female sexual liberation.

And just because a woman has had enough life experience to come to that realisation, it does NOT make them a prude, ffs. Like seriously, can you not recognise how offensive and damaging this kind of shit is to some women... Especially women who've escaped the sex trade.

Winston. How many fingers am I holding up?
Winston. What are your pronouns?

Same shit.

'How many fingers, Winston?'

'Four! Stop it, stop it! How can you go on? Four! Four!'

'How many fingers, Winston?'

'Five! Five! Five!'

'No, Winston, that is no use. You are lying. You still think there are four. How many fingers, please?'

And

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

It's a dick. There's no such thing as a female penis.

I was driving to the shops yesterday and saw two blokes sweaty with their chests out, and zero women.

In my younger days, I did more than more thing suggested by blokes when drunk that I wouldn't have done sober, or without the suggestion - and the men of course knew that. They weren't encouraging other drunk blokes to do it because they weren't sexually interested in blokes. If you go to a gay bar there'll be plenty of half-naked blokes though. I don't know how many half-naked women there are at lesbian bars - the events I've seen all seem to be less exhibitionist though, but not being a lesbian, I can't say if I'm missing some.

GGW was for the male gaze. Where there is a male gaze towards men, men similarly get naked. There is no equivalent female gaze.

"They featured girls, sometimes underage and manipulated into commercial releases while drunk, performing sexual acts on themselves or each other under blatant pressure from Francis. Some, such as Nichole, who appears in the documentary, did not even know she was being taped. Another participant, Tabitha, says she was 17 and drunk when she was talked into a wet T-shirt contest; five years later, she found herself an unwitting poster girl of Girls Gone Wild. (Despite years of legal battles, DVDs featuring her are still being sold.)"

But from this thread I understand that some people are still arguing that it was all harmless and fun?

Worse, they're seeming to infer empowerment from it.

Even if there's "no up skirting involved" - why are you defending taking photos of people and putting online without consent if you think it's " only flashing" or "only a thigh?"
Of course flashing is wrong but the amount of knots being tied to justify sharing indecent online photos is something else.

Wait 'til they hear how often I use 'big girl's blouse' to both women and men😳

Jesus

do you think this poster is for real?

I expect the fact that there are more pornographic images of women than men mean that all of the demand for porn comes from women 🤪

There was that brief moment that everyone pretended, via Me Too and Believe Her, that women were allowed to trust their instincts about creepy men.

Even now, if a creepy man - let's call him Bussell Rand - sat on a stage, leaned back and just loosened his belt maybe. Just to relax you understand. Maybe he'd undo a button. What may have once have been him "being a bit of a card" would now be understood to be decidedly off. Some wise women may even understand the intersection between male power and a type of exhibitionism. Someone might even take a picture of him, so we could all see the creepy man. Little did Bussell know that he just needed to stick a skirt on and, not only would he not get called out for his creepiness, if anyone did try to draw attention to it he'd be recast as a 'victim'.

"Get your tits out, get your tits out, get your tits out for the lads"

Kinda linguistically gives the game away doesn't it? It's hardly subtle. And we are supposed to believe that girls who get carried away and do so are liberated?!

??????

Is it that you don't know what you are talking about or that you are condoning sexual abuse of young women and girls?

The example you chose does at least demonstrate why so many women are wary of men.

Here I am trying to say I'm not totally stupid and completely failing!

When I tried to write disapprobation I spelled it so badly autocorrect changed it to appropriation... at least twice! FFS! 😅

Clearly, Ms Martin does know what the criminal offence of upskirting is, because she recognises that JKR cannot be prosecuted for republishing this photograph.

That Ms Martin disagrees with JKR's decision to republish the photograph is irrelevant to whether it constitutes upskirting, image-based abuse (aka "revenge porn"), or any other crime. (Hint: it doesn't, because the image is of a public act involving only adult subjects and the image isn't proscribed as a form of "extreme porn".) People are entitled to differing opinions about non-criminal acts.

I’m catching up with the thread a bit now having originally ignored it as no, humans understanding biology is not a cult fgs, but have I got this straight that the bekinders feel sex realists are ‘mocking femininity’ in everyone regardless of their sex when someone criticises men who insist on displaying their AGP cross dressing in public?

I think everyone is quite capable of recognising the difference in what’s going on in the wearer’s’ motivation when Harry Styles wears a skirt or when a man wears a kilt or even, FFS, a woman wears a skirt versus when FW wears a mini skirt, fishnets and thigh length boots for a public lecture.

And commenting or calling out the different motivations is not mocking women who wear makeup and dresses and high heels. If that is the accusation playing out now, I despair, I really do.

Yup. It's awful.

I watched the whole event with Fred Wallace and Helen Joyce and it was glaringly obvious that it was a massive power play and FU to women from Fred. I agree that posting the picture plays into Fred's almost certain humiliation fetish. However, I think it has been a useful trigger for more debate and has helped more women to see that not all trans-identifed men are the sweet little Mrs Doubtfire of lore.

I used to go to gigs where pissed up women on the shoulders of their boyfriends would flash their tits to the camera to get on the big screens.

You'd also see lots of them getting groped by all the men standing around them in the process.

But hell they were having a good time so these blokes were within their rights to do this, she was fully empowered and in control of the situation, just having fun and alcohol had no influence.

I'd swear to god that some people are actually completely blind but then I remember Winston and know that they can see what's really happening.

They just choose not to acknowledge the truth because describing the reality of what they see means they have to acknowledge the harms they are confronted with and that the illusion of empowerment that they've been sold, is a lie. And acknowledging the lie requires them to re-evaluate everything they previously thought to be true and it changes how they see the world.

They still want to tell Mum that Santa is real long after they caught Mum red handed putting presents in their stockings, because if they admit they know they might stop getting the presents.

You know LOTS of women aren’t gender critical, right?

I'm fascinated to know what they believe - that women should be defined by societal expectations of sex?

That women don't need equality law? ("Only a fraction of people are pregnant every year, and it could be anyone, so we aren't going to bother with maternity rights any more, and frankly who even needs an abortion anyway?")

Please do explain.

What women celebrating their sexuality looks like is buying a Hitachi Magic Wand or instructing her partner during cunnilingus or indeed anything else that gives pleasure to her.

Not being coerced or tricked into a filmed sex act whilst drunk, underage, or both.

When I was younger, I've flashed on request and been groped... because complying and getting it over with felt like the safer option than saying no to a group of pissed up men (especially when a previous night out had ended up with my best friend being punched by a bloke she told to f off).

Definitely a fun and liberating experience I look back on😏

I'm now worried I'm not culting correctly- should I be worshipping my own gametes or someone else's?