Are we a cult?

[CyclingSam]

I keep reading that sex realists, of which I am one, are a cult. Perhaps a genderist could be so kind as to explain what a cult is, and why we qualify. Sometimes one of us calls them a cult too. Who has a better case, hmmm?

"Transmen" are women. Why would we go after them?

Fetishwear targeted at the male gaze isn't what I'd consider “feminine". It's actually pretty grim. One could only consider it feminine if one subscribed to the Andrea Long Chu reductive and offensive view that "fucked is what female is".

I'm not surprised, given the tears in the fishnets.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

In my youth, men like Wallace wore grubby macs, not miniskirts and fishnets, and we had no hesitation to call them the flashers they were. And if a woman had had a camera to hand and the presence of mind to use it, the photograph would have been deemed evidence, not "upskirting".

😂

Mainly cos we can't be fucking arsed to go to those lengths. It's not worth our time. We aren't interested in disruption and confrontation. It's something teenagers and students do cos they are bored and their Mum has made their tea.

Women can't be misogynistic towards men.

It's DARVO and appropriation again.

Women can't be misogynistic towards trans identified males because

1. Misogyny is directed by men at women and girls, because they are the female sex.
2. Women are female.
3. Transwomen are male. I prefer the term trans identified males, or just men for simplicity.

Trans identified males can very easily turn out to be misogynistic towards women, however gestures broadly to draw attention to current IRL events, this thread, and beyond through the last decade.

How do I know I'm not in a cult?

'Her penis' is a phrase only compatible with denial of material reality and purpose.

You can't have a male reproductive organ labelled as female. It doesn't compute. It's contradictory to the purpose of the male organ which exists to reproduce. It may be faulty for so reason, but it exists because it's supposed to have a certain purpose.

Females want safeguarding from penises in various manners.

Males who lack a penis, still pose many of these same threats unfortunately. Removal does not remove the risk to women that male sexual behaviour presents.

For another perspective on name changing, if a poster has been attacked frequently under one name, they may choose to change to avoid other people AS and bringing up their posting history. If you had been accused of being a TRA, a man, ignorant, another poster entirely, misogynistic, and even a child abuser - all levelled at me - wouldn’t it cross your mind to change your name and start fresh if you still wished to engage on the forum?

Or, occasional name changing is part of a poster’s forum safety protocols rather a deliberate obfuscation strategy.

I’m none of the things above. I’m just a feminist in a different way to you.

"What is Transmisogyny?
Transmisogyny describes the intersecting oppressions and discriminations of transphobia and misogyny (Sojka 2017). Transphobia is the discrimination and oppression of trans people for their gender expression. Misogyny is the hatred and devaluation of women and of femininity (Kacere 2018). Transmisogyny primarily affects trans women and transfeminine people (Sojka 2017). However, it also affects trans and nonbinary folks who may be perceived as feminine (Kacere 2018). Thus, transmisogyny works to portray trans women and transfeminine people as less than, questions and devalues their gender identity, and sexualizes their femininity (Sojka 2017)."

https://rcsgd.sa.ucsb.edu/resources/lgbtqia-informational-resources/transmisogyny

Misogyny is "the hatred and devaluation of women and of femininity". You would think that so called 'feminists' would know that feminine expression is a major target of misogynists…but alas here we are.

We don't need to use guerrilla tactics like brigading.

We're not the ones trying to make everyone else conform to (or otherwise shut up pointing out how ridiculous it is) a reality denying ideological belief system. One which disadvantages half the population to give an "advantage" to only a tiny percentage of the other half of the population.

We believe in reality, most people do. Reality doesn't need people to organise to spread ideological propaganda for it.

Reality just... is.
People are either the male or female sex. Sex is immutable.
Reality will continue on being real regardless of what people believe or not.

Note. I say "advantage" because I am yet to see what the advantage is in allowing trans identifying men access to female single sex spaces. It doesn't provide any advantage to female people, and in fact puts them at a disadvantage. I can't see the advantage to trans identifying males either really, unless the advantage is just giving them access to non-consenting women.

Because to me it is obvious that it would be more advantageous for everyone if everyone's needs were catered for fairly. That means single sex female spaces free of trans identifying males, and extra spaces for trans people and any other people willing to use a (less safe) mixed sex space.

As so many people have pointed out already, this could all have been sorted by now if TRAs had put their efforts into campaigning for extra spaces. They would have had so much help from GC women to do so, and there would have been no conflict because they wouldn't have been trying to take away our rights.

But no, TRAs continue to fight to remove women's rights, and to gain access to female single sex spaces.

That's another made up word used to shut women up, it's just more appropriation and DARVO'ing of actual misogyny towards women.

Women can't be any flavour of misogynistic towards trans identifying males, because TiMs are men.

Misogyny is something only possible to be directed at people of the female sex.

I'd be willing to accept the argument that "transmisogyny" is actually a term which accurately describes the misogyny directed at female people by some trans identifying activists 😆

Edited to add: Oh and the term used in the post that I was replying to was "M.I.S.O.G.Y.N.Y", now you're introducing the made up term "transmisogyny" to move the goalpost because I was right in that it wasn't misogyny at all in the first place.

There's no such thing as "transmisogyny" because "transwomen" are men.

What percentage of ardent, aggressive MNetters would ever dare to leave the reassuring echo-chamber

I already explained what happens when we post on Reddit.

However, some of us have not only left the FWR "echo chamber" (which it isn't, because you and others with views like yours post here without being deleted and banned) but have gone to employment tribunals and the Supreme Court to argue our views (directly or via barristers). Going to court is not the action of people who fear debate.

Its misogyny to hate on feminine expression. The person being targeted doesn't have to be male or female because they both express feminine behaviour although its more common in females.

And that would be on brand for sex realists because of their self admitted distinct aversion to gender (clue is in the name: gender critical) that they particularly target trans women over (see feminine expression) hence their belief its only a patriarchal imposition.

It's bit hard to profess a 'made up word' when your whole ideology is premised on it.

They express "feminine behaviour" or a caricature of what they think constitutes how females behave?

Nope it's still a made up word, now with an added made up reason you attribute to us necessitating your use of the made up word.

Gender ideology is the belief that if you like pink and dresses you must be a girl, and if you like trousers and playing sports you must be a boy. It's built on reinforcing harmful and sexist stereotypes.

Gender critical people believe that these types of stereotypes are harmful to children. We are critical of the reinforcing of sexist stereotypes and therefore the ideology that is built on them.

TRA adherents will keep telling us how closed minded and hateful we are, but we repeatedly demonstrate how untrue that is. We actually care about trans identified people, we want them to be happy and healthy members of society. However that means they also have to abide by the laws and consider others who live within that society.

All that means is that we recognise that sex matters sometimes, that women also have, and are deserving of, their right to privacy, dignity and safety away from male people.

None of that is hateful towards effeminate men. The made up word is meaningless.

None of us really care what men look like or wear. We just want to retain our rights as women and for men to stay out of our single sex spaces regardless of how they identify.

Misogyny is still a very real problem that women and girls face today. Trans ideology has proven a very useful tool for misogynists to really have a good go at removing women's rights.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any credible threats, or actual hate of any kind directed from GC women at trans identifying people.

On the other hand again, it's very easy to find repeated evidence of threats, and open hatred, directed at women coming from male TRAs.

Edited to add
Oh I see we're back to using "misogyny" instead of "transmisogyny" again. Pick a lane will you.

I get sick of repeating myself.

Misogyny is something that affects females because they are female. Women can't be misogynistic towards men regardless of how they identify, because men are not female.

How the fuck did we get onto a discussion about Dudley Dursley’s pigs tail?

The entire point of the spell that produced the tail was that it was meant to show Hagrid had an immature reaction and cast a spell in retaliation. It was highlighting an inappropriate use of magic.

It was a children’s book highlighting that even adults are not perfect in their response of things. It was not meant to be a positive reinforcement of the stereotype. Quite the opposite.

It was illustrating how poor the judgement of an adult who usually modelled better judgement was at that moment that he used magic that way and he choose a stereotyped association that is not appropriate for many reasons to do so. Plus it also showed that magic used in that way might require human intervention such as surgery to fix. Not just even more painful to the person but risked alerting those without knowledge that magic exists to the existence of magic.

I suppose it is completely pointless asking those who call Fred Wallace 'she', at what point he changed into a woman enough to call him 'she'?

What with all my inability to comprehend the profound answers that might come my way, due to my 'dogma' and 'cult' thinking.

But what about the lurkers? Any chance you could explain it to them? Use simple words if you need to. Explain it like you would to a 5 years old kid.

Expressing gender critical views in real life has not been possible for those working in many professions. On the other hand those with the opposite view have been allowed to share their view and promote/display their view openly, this bullying and badgering of those who do not accept the trans ideology due to fear of loosing their job forced people to be careful when expressing their views. Fortunately this is changing, JK Rowling has expressed her views and been vilified for this , I admire her greatly for her bravery and strength

yep. Transmisogyny is another act of appropriation. And as such it renders the term misogyny meaningless because that is a term for hatred of female people.

If someone is hateful towards male people because of how they present themselves, that fits the definition of misandry.

However, pointing out the misogyny of a male person who acts in a way that they, personally, describe as ‘female’ based on sexist stereotypes that those male people believe in any way make them ‘female’ is not misandry.

Gender ideology is the belief that if you like pink and dresses you must be a girl, and if you like trousers and playing sports you must be a boy. It's built on reinforcing harmful and sexist stereotypes.

If that were true (& its not) then why viciously mock trans women & not trans men as sexual deviants? The case that gender is shared by the sexes doesn't require the mocking of feminine expression in males as perverse. And why assert as they routinely do that women's traditional expression of femininity is only a patriarchal cultural imposition as if its an indoctrinated sexually perverse phenomena?

I suspect trans women in particular are the conduit for which this severe aversion to feminine expression is channelled under the guise of 'women's rights' when it is anything but by demeaning feminine expression.

To add, gaslighting female people that them pointing out that it is an act of misogyny to reduce female people to sexist stereotypes can be considered an act of collective darvo.

So is removing the meaning of the words female people need for description of their lives and things that negatively impact their lives.

^^ this.

The clothing choice and sitting position was deliberate. This was a male person who has an exhibitionist fetish sitting in a way that exposed himself to the audience sitting at eye level to his groin.

Many of us grew up with Marilyn and Boy George. I myself was a New Romantic.

When you say 'mocking' what do you mean exactly?

Are you completely misunderstanding what is going on here?