Civil servants oppose plans to end trans reassignment leave policy

[Whattheflush]

Oh for gods SAKE. The tide is turning but it feels like the wane is ever so slow.

Civil servants fight plan to scrap trans ‘reassignment leave’

www.thetimes.com/article/8b46e972-e753-4e32-94ce-04dd09a1bbd5?shareToken=b264d0a693114f10740e3ee99ed1f882

What is your objection to people being allowed time off to recover from surgery?

Until now, transgender employees could take up to 13 weeks of special leave in a rolling 12-month period for medical treatment and recovery related to gender identity without it being counted as sick leave.

The objection as far as I'm concerned is that I don't think anybody should be having surgery for a psychological issue, and providing this very generous paid leave makes it more likely that some civil servants will go down that path. Looking specifically at surgery on the genital area, there's a high risk of post-operative infection and complications, and the end results are really nothing like the real thing. If I ruled the world all that surgery would be banned.

Good to see that the equality aspect of this is what's brought it to an end. Presumably civil servants with serious illnesses, possibly life limiting, looked at trans colleagues getting an extra 13 weeks before sick pay kicks in and made complaints?

No more sacred castes. No more special treatment. No more special privileges.
Time to be part of the community, the workplace and accept the same rights that everyone else has.

It should just be about fitness to work due to surgery. No statutory set period for transition. They aren't having a baby.

@MrsOvertonsWindow Says it better than me. It's as much the flouncy threat to take the civil service off the list of so called inclusive employers. That still reeks of Stonewall's dead hand on employers when it should simply be: employers who follow the law.

I imagine a lot of the pushback will be coming from HR managers who have had to give their employees written warnings for too much time off sick for things like cancer treatment - yes, the CS will give a sick warning to a cancer patient if they’ve had too many days off. Even if it’s for active treatment. As soon as you reach trigger point, it doesn’t matter if you’re having daily treatment, appointments and follow ups. You get a written warning for sick. And whilst verbally everyone knows it’s a crock of crap, managers still have to comply with policy. Their judgement is not considered good enough. It has resulted in people coming back too soon and then hitting the double whammy as their recovery is hampered by having come back too soon and then being considered as having taken 2 lots of sick leave in a short space of time.

i don't have any. I have an objection to trans people being allowed paid time off for recovery from surgery that a cancer victim working for the same employer would not be allowed under the sickness and absence policy.

There should be a level playing field in the way that absence for surgery is treated across the board. No favouritism or sacred castes, thank you very much.

My objection is to people being allowed special leave for recovery from cosmetic surgery. This is no more justified than special leave for recovery from a facelift.

Not permitting time off could be gender reassignment discrimination

I thought you had to be quite clever to work for the Civil Service. Perhaps not

Take it to court then.

In case anyone doesn't know what this surgery involves, here are the gruesome details.

genderblog.net/what-exactly-is-a-neophallus-then/

https://genderblog.net/what-exactly-is-a-neo-vagina-then/

I don't think it could; wouldn't the comparator in this case be a person without the protected characteristic of gender reassignment asking for paid and not-counted-for-disciplinary-purposes time off for elective cosmetic surgery? I wouldn't expect that one to fly.

I’m a CS with a disability. In my dept, trans colleagues receive unlimited leave for reasons pertaining to gender reassignment and these absences are deliberately excluded from absence review trigger points. I can have 9 days absence in a rolling 12 month period before I am subject to action under absence management policies. My hospital appts don’t receive paid leave (and shouldn’t) and must be booked either outside of work hours or the time made up. The CS is supposed to foster good relations between communities and these sorts of policies do not do that as the unfairness is obvious.

Wow

In what way? I could possibly see an argument for indirect discrimination, but that argument then opens up the entire sickness absence policy to a disability discrimination claim.

I actually think that allowing time off for medical appointments relating to 'gender reassignment' isn't unreasonable in principle - in the same way that pregnant women get time off for maternity-related appointments.

Surely this is exactly the sort of thing that the people who drafted the equality act had in mind when they made gender reassignment a protected characteristic - before it got displaced by the false claims that we all had to pretend that gender reassigned people really were the opposite sex?

I mean, the devil is in the detail, and 13 weeks sounds impossibly generous (unless it is restricted to certain qualifying situations such as profound surgical alterations entered into after whatever counts as a proper psychiatric evaluation). But in principle some degree of reassignment leave doesn't sound outrageous
(although in practice I can well imagine it having led to large amounts of spurious time off to attend any number of marginal things such as chestfeeding workshops and the like).

They are and still will be permitted time off. However the current policy treats trans staff more favourably than other staff in terms of sickness absence policy which could be discrimination on the basis of disability or sex potentially age too.

The same policy should be applied to all.

No, section 16 of the Equality Act 2010 covers this case and the comparator has nothing to do with cosmetic surgery.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/16

“Neo vagina” - the very name is insulting. It’s Neo nothing of the sort.

I agree it should attract the same leave as cosmetic surgery.

The objection as far as I'm concerned is that I don't think anybody should be having surgery for a psychological issue,

That's not really your decision

providing this very generous paid leave makes it more likely that some civil servants will go down that path

Don't be ridiculous. No-one is going to have genital surgery just to get time off.

I have an objection to trans people being allowed paid time off for recovery from surgery that a cancer victim working for the same employer would not be allowed under the sickness and absence police

That's wrong if it's true but I'm not sure it is.

Don't be ridiculous. No-one is going to have genital surgery just to get time off.

I didn't say that. If you work for an employer who gives extremely generous leave to recover from this surgery it may be one factor that persuades an employee to go for the surgery, whereas if you had to factor in unpaid leave you might not.

Gender reassignment discrimination: cases of absence from work
(1)This section has effect for the purposes of the application of Part 5 (work) to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

(2)A person (A) discriminates against a transsexual person (B) if, in relation to an absence of B's that is because of gender reassignment, A treats B less favourably than A would treat B if—

(a)B's absence was because of sickness or injury, or

(b)B's absence was for some other reason and it is not reasonable for B to be treated less favourably.

(3)A person's absence is because of gender reassignment if it is because the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone the process (or part of the process) mentioned in section 7(1).

If the policy is changed then the transperson will be subject to exactly the same terms and treatment as they would if they had cancer or required treatment due to a disability so there would be no discrimination on the basis of GR

13 weeks a year is one-quarter of a year. Available every year.
Bonkers.