Civil servants oppose plans to end trans reassignment leave policy

[Whattheflush]

Oh for gods SAKE. The tide is turning but it feels like the wane is ever so slow.

Civil servants fight plan to scrap trans ‘reassignment leave’

www.thetimes.com/article/8b46e972-e753-4e32-94ce-04dd09a1bbd5?shareToken=b264d0a693114f10740e3ee99ed1f882

I agree its about fairness or lack of with the old policy.
I also think thats what most posters on this thread are objecting to

Why is everyone saying that trans people should 'get what everyone else gets'?

The CS also has a policy of paid special leave related to health and disability needs. So if someone needs time off to deal with follow ups after surgery or for chronic health conditions, that is also permissible without using either sick leave or annual leave.

It is discretionary and has to be agreed with a line manager, as is the gender reassignment paid special leave.

Why are there two separate policies then? Why not simply include gender reassignment in the general paid special leave policy?

That doesn’t appear to be the experience of CS employees on this thread. Can you comment on the disparity? Are they lying? Ignorant? Misled by others?

"The Civil Service LGBT+ Network and a:gender, two employee groups... said they would no longer promote the Civil Service as an inclusive employer."

Oh no, whatever will the Civil Service do to attract applicants now.

Sad times.

Because gender reassignment isn't a disability and isn't always a medical or health issue.

Probably the same reason there are separate policies for special leave for carers, or for voluntary work, or jury service.

You'd have to ask them.

If gender reasssignment isn't a medical or health issue, it doesn't need any special paid time off at all, same as I don't need special paid time off when I'm well.

If it isn't a disability but is a health issue, it should be treated like all other non-disability health issues under the same sickness policy.

Good stuff.

Good luck to them finding better conditions and employment elsewhere.

You may well need, and be entitled to, special paid leave when you’re well - bereavement or parental leave, for jury or other civic service including being a trustee or lay member of a committee etc. Most employers have policies on this and the CS certainly do.

Perhaps broadly, but there’s plenty of hateful commentary and ignorance too.

1 persons hateful comment is another person's facts

That is a situation just begging to be taken to a tribunal. How absolutely shameless of the T lobby within the CS.

E.g. ‘if I had my way no-one would be allowed surgery for gender reassignment’ is an opinion, not a fact - but I feel we could go around in circles on this. It’s possibly to protect all rights if we are motivated to, but there’s plenty here who are interested in issues where their own rights are engaged.

I don’t see anyone arguing against paid parental or bereavement leave either, even though that’s not applicable to ‘everyone’. I’ve worked in places with blanket policies and in places where sensible discretion was applied to complex circumstances - a colleague who took paid time out to take her daughter to chemo, a person who was paid while attending the trial of her husband’s murderer. Funnily enough no-one complained that ‘wasn’t fair’.

None of your examples are related to surgery and medical treatments. Having one leave policy for most people's, including disabled people's, medical stuff and another far more lenient policy for trans-identifying people's medical stuff is grossly unfair. As a PP said, HR staff must feel awful having to send sickness absence warnings to staff with cancer, and it will seem even crueler to do this when Erica at the next desk is getting paid time off with no warnings for his boob job and voice training.

Why should Erica, whose voice works perfectly already, get a more generous deal than Sam, whose stroke paralysed his vocal folds and is having to learn to speak all over again?

Well a quick google suggests that special leave for carers, voluntary work or jury service usually come under the heading of special leave policy. In fact the gender transition policy sometimes comes under special leave policy too, so it probably depends which branch of the Civil Service is involved.

I think one issue is that employees (and even managers) are often unaware of special leave policies, so more work needs to be done on bringing them to the attention of everyone in a workplace or organisation.

It is the sheer scale of the leave for 'gender transition' that boggles my mind. Up to a quarter of a year, every year. In one of the examples I found, it is not for when a person is unfit for work following an operation or treatment (which comes out of sickness leave) but for gender reassignment appointments and treatments themselves which, as PP have said, may well include laser hair removal, make up lessons, personal stylist appointments, voice training and tattoos.
Not to re-hash a recent thread, but gender dysphoria that necessitates treatment that the tax-payer pays for either through the NHS and/or paid special leave should be classified as an medical/health issue or disability, not just the lifestyle choice that many TRAs present it as.

No, they’re not, because my response was to you stating you don’t need special time off when well. In fact many people do and an employer can decide what comes under that policy.

Anyone can choose what to do with their body and will have to operate within the policies that exist. Your attempts to demean ‘Erica’s’ choices as less valid than ‘Sam’s’ undermines any idea of fairness. A policy isn’t about individuals, it’s not about whether you agree with what someone’s doing or your assessment of whether they need it or not. It’s disappointing - though inevitable - that people are using this as an opportunity to denigrate trans people rather than actually advocate for clear and fair policies for everyone.

Your attempts to demean ‘Erica’s’ choices as less valid than ‘Sam’s’ undermines any idea of fairness.

Sam doesn't have a fucking choice. He's had a stroke. Give me strength.

TQ+ have destroyed the rights of so many disabled and ill people
its infuriating

I hope Sam is feeling better soon. 'Erica' needs to get back to fucking work.

Feel like I read there is research showing a difference in the brain patterns of men and women (makes sense that this would be a biological issue that could potentially be cured with an operation or medication).

I do understand your view about how you're treated since birth but I feel it's always a combination of nature and nurture. So, how you're treated could impact your taste in romantic partners, but whether you start by liking men or women (or whatever) is nature.

I don't think I felt like a girl only because I had a vagina, because I didn't really even know I had one (or didn't think about it) until sex education at the end of primary school, and our teacher recommended looking at ourselves with a mirror down there. You don't think about what boys have, do you, until you get older and go through puberty and learn things.

Until I see science indicating otherwise, and frankly, I don't care if it's biological or mental/thoughts only: if you 'feel' like (or believe) you are one gender: it's cruel to force someone to live their life as the other. Try it yourself. And I don't know if curing it ('changing' gender in their minds) is less horrific than changing their bodies. Lesser of two.

Or what is the solution to ease their suffering? Talking about it in therapy won't work.

Yeah, I don't agree with that. The policy needs to be fair: unpaid leave beyond X amount of time for surgery and recovery. Or use holidays.

You didn't read my post, did you?

The Civil Service has policies around special leave for a range of reasons. One of those is to do with health and disability. Many others are not.