Civil servants oppose plans to end trans reassignment leave policy

[Whattheflush]

Oh for gods SAKE. The tide is turning but it feels like the wane is ever so slow.

Civil servants fight plan to scrap trans ‘reassignment leave’

www.thetimes.com/article/8b46e972-e753-4e32-94ce-04dd09a1bbd5?shareToken=b264d0a693114f10740e3ee99ed1f882

Why dont you Google the numbers yourself instead of asking me to look them out for you?

My understanding is you have a surgery booked, your manager asks for the doctors note which usually states what it was and then you need fit to work from the GP for any extra time off. This is the same for (ordinary) cosmetic surgeries in my experience. Although there are comparatively few of those, I have not heard of anyone having sick pay denied, it is moaned about though.

Perhaps women could say they were having gender reassignment surgery to become a transwoman and get 13 weeks off for a boob job, or facial feminising surgery (facelift/nosejob/whatever). It’s deeply unfair a man gets 13 weeks off for the same operations when both groups of people are having them because they don’t like the way they look but only one group gets a ridiculous amount of time off, no questions asked.

I don’t agree with paid time off for cosmetic surgery but for the record some of these posts do not match my experience in the civil service of time off for other medical issues. If someone has had to use annual leave for a surgery it is probably because they have exhausted their paid sick leave. Nobody should be using annual leave if they have sick leave left, we also have disability leave.

I get particularly annoyed by any comparison of time off allowed for maternity related issues and gender transition ones.

Quite apart from anything else, women having babies is the only way we ensure the continuation of the human race.

This is so misleading. It's not limited to time off for surgery, it's anything to do with reassignment, which the individual gets to decide so covers things like :
Laser hair removal
Make up lessons
Personal stylist appointments
Voice training
Tattoos

As well as all appointments.

In contrast my friend with PCOS who needed vaginal surgery to relieve intense pain and regular sick leave for symptoms very quickly ran out of allowed time. She also needed laser hair removal and was told that was cosmetic and so take annual leave.

We just want it to be fair. Trans people get the same sickness policy as the rest of us.

This. A colleague took unpaid leave to recover from cosmetic surgery. Same should apply here. She was very unhappy with her body and this made her feel better about herself. Trans surgery, especially if it is only facial feminisation, is no different.

That's a dreadful policy. The % of staff in this position must be minimal so I don't understand why it's so harsh.

My workplace divides sick leave into elective and non elective surgery (and recovery). I've no idea how it regards gender reassignment surgery. The only trans person I'm aware of left, as the environment wasn't supportive enough though.

In theory yes but not all these treatments are NHS funded so unlike most civil servants are having surgery every year. Even funded treatments have long waiting lists, so I don’t think the yearly issue would ever arise.

Interesting - how does your employer define elective?

Because they're getting it aside from sick leave.

Sick leave covers recovery from surgery does it not? And if the employee has not enough sick leave they use annual leave and unpaid leave. Thats how employment works

Other posters have already answered this question, but I will just add that I read a recommendation from a TIM that facial feminisation surgery be done in stages rather than all in one go, because recovery is so demanding.

I've no idea tbh as I've never needed to ask, but I would assume elective is something that hasn't caused you to take sick leave previously eg cosmetic surgery etc.

Thanks. I wonder if that could put them on shaky ground, unless they were flexible. I had a colleague who never took sick leave, became unwell suddenly and needed a bowel resection. At the time we worked somewhere with a similar - no sick leave, not urgent - policy and stuck to it. She of course won at tribunal. I’m always much more interested in sickness policy as a result!

Why is that relevant?

Why is that relevant? It's the policy that we are discussing. Not how many people use it and how often.

Sorry, I'm struggling to understand what you are saying in this post.

Well because if less than half of trans people have these surgeries, and only a tiny number of people have all of them, then it isn't really that much of a problem. If most people who identify as trans have all of them, then it's a bigger issue.

The problem is the policy. How many people use it to its max is irrelevant.

No i think that is veey relevant. If it is that long to include the risn of serious but rare complications but few people actually take that long, then it is absolutely fine IMO.

They can have time off like every else. Sick leave.

But why just for people undergoing gender reassignment? Why not for anyone having major surgery?

It looks as though the change is fair and equitable. Trans people get the same benefits as every other civil servant, no more and no less. Frankly it’s pretty appalling that it was ever different.

For those types of surgeries you're probably correct but if it covers hair transplants and lazer hair removal etc then it might be regularly used.
However the fact that even 1 person could when everyone else cant is the problem

Not many people have cancer treatment either. A policy is either equitable in individual cases, or it’s globally unfair and the unfairness affects everyone.

Agree, it should be proportionate to what everyone else gets and shouldn’t cover non-medical procedures like hair removal or transplants. The problem for me is that objections are so often framed around hatred and frantic imaginaries of trans people - see many pp - rather than basic fairness.