Civil servants oppose plans to end trans reassignment leave policy

[Whattheflush]

Oh for gods SAKE. The tide is turning but it feels like the wane is ever so slow.

Civil servants fight plan to scrap trans ‘reassignment leave’

www.thetimes.com/article/8b46e972-e753-4e32-94ce-04dd09a1bbd5?shareToken=b264d0a693114f10740e3ee99ed1f882

It is. There are people with remitting relapsing conditions like MS or various mental health issues who could really do with having a lot of flexibility around their hours and time off and who don't get it so what inevitably happens is they don't work at all. And then there are these special people who get whatever they ask for.

There was a Civil Servant who spoke about this at a KJK LWS event. She said that if a woman needs reconstructive surgery after breast cancer she has to take that from annual leave and might end up going down to half pay or no pay.

That is absolutely outrageous. And once again, for me, underlines that for all the 'awareness' , slick marketing and snazzy merch, people with (particularly physical) disabilities and the elderly are still so very carelessly discriminated against.

@csturbjikbfd The CS is supposed to foster good relations between communities and these sorts of policies do not do that as the unfairness is obvious.

This is an important point. The overreach by the activists is causing harm to their own community. You can see and hear the pushback that is gathering pace, against the T, but also against the L and G from the homophobes who never went away and feel that they have a voice once again. This favouritism needs to stop, for everyone's sake.

Thank God you're not running the country.

Assuming you're female (switch it if not): If someone told you at age 8 that soon, you'd go through puberty and grow a penis and beard, and have a voice 2 octaves deeper.. would you have been horrified? Now imagine a doctor gave you a pill and said: don't worry, once you take this pill, you'll 'recognise' that you're male and then be okay with growing a penis.

Would you take the pill? Or fight tooth and nail because you "know" you're female. Because even at that age, you "knew" your gender. We all did.

That's how these people feel. They know from a young age that they're a certain gender, it's just that their bodies don't match. So either operate on their brains (/ provide a pill) or operate on their bodies. But which would you choose? Or just be miserable all your life and commit suicide eventually.

You are lacking not only in empathy, but in basic understanding of the condition and impact on those affected.

They need support and it's probably just the lesser of two evils that we choose to operate on their bodies.

Definitely doesn't apply to children and I never agree with that - it should be illegal for kids.

Who was actually asked about this anyway? I'm a civil servant and don't recall any surveys or votes about this.

It's bonkers.
The sooner surgeons get sued the better.

@Awkwardisfunny Definitely doesn't apply to children and I never agree with that - it should be illegal for kids.

Why should it be illegal for kids? You said that they know their gender from a young age. Why not block their puberty, give them cross sex hormones and then remove/refashion any secondary sex characterisitics that they don't like. All done nice and young so that they meet the adult world as their true selves.

Why don't you want that?

The problem is it was 13 weeks of extra paid leave that no other employee was entitled to. Trans identifying people should have the same sickness and sick pay leave as everyone else and not given extra for their chosen cosmetic surgery.
If women have to use a combination of paid and unpaid sick leave/holiday allowance and/or an unpaid sabbatical to have a boob job so should every single man who wants one otherwise thats sex discrimination.
Now if they want to keep the policy they can but they must open it up to all employees who want any cosmetic surgery whether thats a nose job, face-lift, tummy-tuck or even dental implants. However I suspect that the cost of doing so is prohibitive so they are rightly scrapping the illegal policy.
Why do you think that trans people should have rights that nobody else have when it comes to sick pay?

Nope not if they apply the same policy to anyone else wanting time off for cosmetic surgery.
But nice try thought

Because it’s elective surgery? Should anyone having a face lift, boob job or hair transplant be entitled to paid leave out of the company or tax payers purse?

Imho no. Not for any of those whether it’s for vanity/cosmetic reasons or to support transition.

The equality act and maternity legislation specifically states that employers must give pregnant women time off for their pregnancy related appointments and a minimum maternity leave and pay.
There are no such clauses or adjacent laws which require employers to do the same for trans identifying people.
The equality act brought gender reassignment discrimination in line with race, religious, sex and sexual orientation discrimination laws not maternity.
All the gender reassignment characteristic does is make it illegal to refuse services, employment or housing to someone purely because they are trans. It gives them no extra rights

You are very arrogant for someone completely wrong. That’s not a thing under the Equality Act. Section 16 covers discrimination for time off related to gender reassignment. You can’t treat someone taking time off for gender reassignment any less favourably than someone taking time off for sickness or injury.

Eh? Male children have a penis all their lives, they don’t suddenly get one at puberty. What a bizarre view of human development.

Because THAT surgery is not necessary, it is optional. Hope you will be in favour of the tax payers paying for me to have a tummy tuck, breast augmentation, eye blephoplasty, etc? Actually I threw the latter in as i do have a congenital eye defect, would never be able to get further corrective surgery on the NHS. So why can some sections of the population get totally optional surgery, and others can't?

Yeah, that poster lost me as well at the "growing a penis" bit. Whut? And then says we lack understanding? Hmm...

Nobody grows a penis after birth so your entire premise falls down at the 1st point.
Also there is no pill that makes people happy to be their birth sex or not so again you're talking nonsense.
Everybody knows what sex they were born and thinking that you feel like the opposite sex is an erroneous thought process because no male can know what it feels like to be a female they can only assume and asign thought processes to females and then decide that they feel that way too.
What they need is psychiatric help to deal with the underlying mental health conditions that have triggered their body dismorphia and delusional thought processes ie watchful waiting therapy which worked for decades before affirmation therapy came along

@Hoardasurass why are you ignoring my reply?

Yes and now they are being treated exactly the same as everyone else so what's your point/problem?
The man who wants a boob job now has the same hoops to jump through as the cancer patient who wants breast reconstruction both of which are cosmetic surgery.
Like for like so still not discrimination but again nice try

I didn't i was working my way through the thread and im also not at your bec and call.
Why do you think you have the right to demand an answer which btw you got at the same time as your demand posted

Indeed and boy children are not told they will go through puberty and grow a beard [and a penis, he’d have one of those already]. They are told they’ll grow up to be a man like daddy, uncle Bob, [insert male sports idol of choice] etc. A beard is not an essential male attribute, only an optional one [one I kind of which my 18yo wasn’t trying to cultivate frankly and along with wishing DH hadn’t grown one one Movember and four years later still has].

Only someone with deep seated [negative] issues about men would frame puberty to a male child like that.

I actually would have been horrified at 8 years old if someone told me I was going to grow a penis.

Why would any female child grow a penis? Boys have penises.

This.

Equality means you treat surgery as you would treat all other surgery or absence for medically related issues.

The policy of 13 weeks no questions asked arguably discriminates against disability as defined under the equality act.

However a google search seems to suggest that at present you absolutely can claim statutory sick pay for absence from work due to cosmetic surgery, but may not be entitled to enhanced (ie full) pay. So I guess so long as the trans person is treated precisely the same, for their surgeries as others are, it should be fair. Am just stunned that it would cover elective cosmetic surgeries at all. It’s all nuts.

You are not showing much understanding here.

You are spouting unsubstantiated appeals to emotion, most of which have been debunked as exactly that - guff.

As it goes I've just seen a brilliant video on twitter explaining this type of hyperventilation and butchering of logistics to shame and manipulate.

https://x.com/i/status/2086932074959908927

I recommend everyone watch it as this post is a good example of what is talked about in the video which breaks down the nonsense.

I was looking to share this video and this post has provided the perfect example and reason to do so.

It's fascinating.