Different instinctive reactions to men and trans women in public

[Waheymum]

It's occurred to me that I have crossed the road to avoid potentially dodgy men countless times in my life, but never a transwoman, even though I know that transwomen pose exactly the same threats as men do. I'll notice transwomen and recognise that they are trans, but I don't have the same socially-conditioned flight response.

Does anyone else experience this?

So awful to see it all laid out like that but great list.

Exactly.

Yes. I agree. Although the trans men I’ve come across have been of average or below average height for women. One in particular was deeply troubled and very brave in many areas of her difficult life and I almost felt protective of her.

One trans woman was also troubled and not threatening. Others have been of the “look at me” sort, rather large and best avoided.

Read the thread as I and other posters have posted the evidence

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/693ac29933c7ace9c4a42024/4104864.2024PeggieFifeFH11.12.25corrected.pdf

section 1038 and onwards.
----Hope this helps.

Actual statistics are biased opinions ok well ill be ignoring you from now on so dont bother quoting or mentioning me again because I wont respond to yo or anything you post as your clearly just here to be goady

It is shocking to see the list of the violence and intimidation against feminists and women’s and girl’s rights campaigners.

I am quite certain though we will get told that those are shocking and bad but that feminists should not be ‘violently’ telling men that they are men and shouldn’t be in female single sex provisions.

We should not be telling them and anyone else why robust safeguarding is needed. We should not be denying that they are female when they say they are.

Because, that is apparently ‘extreme’ and ‘fundamentalist’ and ‘violent’.

Because despite evidence directly contradicting the claim, apparently ‘the majority of women believe TWAW’ and have no issue with male people with transgender identities being in female single sex provisions.

Because ‘both sides’!

It is very interesting to see what TRAs consider literal violence against them and what they Don't consider to be violece and intimidation to others.

Isn’t it.

WHAT DOES TRANS INCLUSION IN A LIBERAL STATE REQUIRE?

January 2026

https://hollylawford-smith.org/what-does-trans-inclusion-in-a-liberal-state-require-pre-print/

Abstract. One of the most prominent minority groups today is trans people. Those who see themselves as fighting for trans rights have tended to take these to include a right to legal recognition by the state, and social treatment by fellow citizens, as the sex of identification. These rights claims have been given substantial legal and institutional uptake. If trans people's full inclusion in public life requires legal recognition and social treatment as the sex of identification, then this is merely a description of things being as they should be. But if trans people's inclusion within the liberal state does not require these things, then this may be a description of a violation of liberal neutrality, the enforcement by the state of a contested and controversial conception of the good; and a tyranny of the majority, the weight of social opinion being pressed against those who want to talk about (what they see as) the fact that things are not as they should be. One way to gain some clarity on whether things are as they should be or not is to carefully consider the principles that liberal democratic states have used to secure the full inclusion in public life of other minority groups, and their application to trans people. I'll consider in particular toleration, collective and individual exemptions, and full accommodation; as they have applied to religious minorities, women, sexual orientation minorities, black people, and people with physical disabilities.

Conclusion

Arguments for adopting, or acting as though we have adopted, trans activist beliefs, in the name of the full inclusion of trans people in public life, appear to have failed. Trans people should be protected from discrimination, but trans activist beliefs are not owed more than toleration. The introduction of trans activist beliefs into law and policy in a liberal state should be just as concerning to us as the introduction of religious beliefs into the same. The insistent social enforcement of trans activist beliefs is a tyranny of the majority, upholding one group's interest in living as it believes it should at the expense of everyone else's interests in living as they believe they should. A liberal state is neutral between competing conceptions of the good; liberal individuals form and pursue their own conceptions of the good, the only constraint being that the pursuit does not harm others (Mill [1859] 1978) or wrongfully set back their interests (Feinberg 1987, Ch. 1). Liberalism does not, and cannot (coherently), require one person's participation (affirmation, validation, acceptance, endorsement, or adoption) in another person's projects. Toleration is required; indifference is sufficient. This is the same conclusion that Francione (2024) reached, just via a route likely to be more satisfying to those sympathetic to the case for trans
inclusion.

Dodgy men look very much like other men.

I think it's probably ones who make women's spidey senses tingle.

oh look! Another reason ‘both sides’ is a fucking weak argument.

”We should all take a s on you, you heinous, creepy old bitch..'

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562114-scottish-man-who-identifies-as-a-woman-intends-to-use-as-many-womens-loos-as-possible

Not violent or intimidatory at all….

Please show the equivalent of feminists saying such things to male people with transgender identities.

We can keep posting these examples every time we see that ‘both sides’ argument or posters saying that women’s words are ‘violent’.

I keep suggesting death eater masks for easy identification but for some reason the dodgy men in my neighbourhood aren't complying. Can't imagine why not.

I tend to avoid trans-identified men (TiMs) in more situations than I avoid men generally. Not by much as there really aren't many of them about but I live in an area that has a lot of Trans identified people so it does happen. Normally I would only avoid men if I was out on my own and, say, the only empty seats on the bus were next to other people - then I'd normally sit next to a woman if I could, and I'd avoid TiMs as much as men, possibly a little more as TiMs on public transport on their own tend to seem a bit more erratic.

But I rarely come across TiMs in those sorts of circumstances. More likely I'll meet them in group setting, and I don't tend to avoid men in those situations either. I avoid going to the loo when they do, but I'd avoid going to the loo if a regular man was going to go into the ladies too.

Here is another 'both sides' example.

https://x.com/stueymaco/status/2084944316602953993?s=20

Pee on a terf. Trans apartheid is abhorrent and a shameful period of British history. Ignorant bigotry that will have zero effect on women's safety in public loos and changing rooms. Brought in through a fixed court hearing. All the weirdos with dragged through a hedge backwards hair, dead shark eyes, blacked-out glasses, thick necks, shocking dress sense and simpleton brains will be chuffed. Labour disgustingly say nothing - hi andyburnham and even have the cheek to be hosting next year's European International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia. Which is like 70s South Africa hosting International Day Against Racism. Lord_Collins. Keep peeing and shopping everybody. If you see a trans person being confronted and humiliated by the cock and fanny police, speak up. Do not accept state sponsored discrimination - August5th

Yep... women have a habit of posting intimidation and violence directed at a male people with transgender identities we have been told....

It is such a weak and false misrepresentation, I recommend anyone making such claims either start linking up evidence, or just accept that making a such a claim that in this ridiculously assymetrical issue is simply not credible.

And a reminder from Bash Back

https://x.com/xoxobashback/status/2084949827704537134?s=46

But…. Both sides, eh?

Nothing quite like letting female people know that a group of angry male people are going to be working hard to make them afraid….