Gender dysphoria is for life

[Seethlaw]

Gender dysphoria is a life-long condition, with or without transitioning.

Even after transition and in no particular order:

• Gender dysphoria is the unrelenting knowledge that under it all, despita everything you've done, your body is still and always will be the wrong sex.
• Gender dysphoria is scars on your body.
• Gender dysphoria is feeling guilty because you make your loved ones' life more complicated.
• Gender dysphoria is having to choose which pre-transition memories you can share and/or having to carefully rewrite them in the opposite sex.
• Gender dysphoria is having to choose between telling your new healthcare provider about your transition and your hormonal treatment, or risking them giving you inappropriate care.
• Gender dysphoria is a lifetime of medication and specialist appointments.
• Gender dysphoria is never being sure whether people truly support you or only humour you.
• Gender dysphoria is being clocked every once in a while and wondering how many people figured you out and you didn't notice.
• Gender dysphoria is wondering how and when you're going to explain to that new person you like that you weren't born the sex you present - and being anxious about how they are going to react.
• Gender dysphoria is never having the sex you really wish you had because even the best fake plumbing is nothing like the real one.
• Ironically, gender dysphoria can even be wishing you could dress or present in a more genderfluid manner, but anything that takes you closer to your birth sex presentation makes you feel worse, no matter how great you think it looks on other people of your desired sex.

And so forth and so on.

The idea that transition ends gender dysphoria is a harmful myth. Gender dysphoria is something that all trans people must learn to live with, whether they transition or not, and no matter at what age they transition. There's no avoiding it; there's no ending it. There's only managing it, carving a happy life for yourself around the good bits, and learning to handle the bad parts in a productive way.

I wish more trans people faced that reality, instead of insisting on living in a fantasy where going through the perfect transition and forcing people into behaving in the perfect manner would mean never having to suffer gender dysphoria ever again.

Being dysphoric, no. But say that to the wrong doctor and you might end up electroshocked. Also, Masquerading laws existed against cross dressing. Its
literally what started stonewall riots.

you've brought up the concept of 'true trans' - what do you mean by that?

Honestly? Not much. I only mean "those people for whom no cause for their gender dysphoria can be found for now". Under that definition, I'm not even sure I qualify in my own eyes as "true trans", because I do know where my dyphoria comes from: a faulty mental map of my body. If that mental map could be corrected (and maybe it can? But where would I turn to get that avenue explored??), then most likely the dysphoria would disappear.

Still, I hypothesise that maybe, out there, there are people for whom no root cause can be detected - for now at least. Those would be whom I call "true trans". Needless to say, if they exist, there aren't many of them at all.

And what do you make of people - I would say this is the main push behind the current 'trans' movement - who say that gender dysphoria is not required to be transgender, it's 'medicalising' people for being their true selves?

I answered a similar question above: I think it's evil, because it's appropriating other conditions as trans, and especially because it ends up medicalising other conditions without even de-medicalising trans! It ends up rail-roading more people into medical transition, thus turning them into life-long patients when there was no need for it.

But pushing the idea that all women are actually only women because of unspecified feelings - because that framing, removing any definition of 'woman', is the only way TRAs can say TW are literally women - just reveals totally sexist, homophobic and contradictory thinking.

I absolutely agree. I know exactly what I mean when I say, "I feel like a man inside," and it's got zero to do with having unspecified feelings about what feeling or being a man is like. How could I know what being a man is like, or feeling like one?? And anyway, it's not about that at all. It's not about men, or women, or other people at all; it's only about me and my relationship with my body.

I feel the muddling of the two approaches has actually caused more people to consider medical transitioning than persistent gender dysphoria.

Pretty sure that was the point all along...

When I was a young teenager I experienced what many people now would label as gender dysphoria. Ultimately this sense of complete disconnection with my own body did not persist and I am now comfortable with my body. I'm not sure what I would have been labelled as because my view is similar to one you expressed in a previous comment - how can I possibly know what it feels like to feel male or female, I'm just me.

Yet there are some people out there who react very aggressively when I tell my story, when I say that for me the "low key" support approach was absolutely the right one. I have to wonder where that response is coming from when I am only sharing my experience, not trying to say that all young people with difficult thoughts will move through them as I did.

TRAs typically argue that everyone should be allowed to conceal their sex, and that pre-transition life should be erased, to the extent that even the slightest reference to it is gravely offensive. I feel this approach is untenable:

Agreed. For all the reasons you cite, and also because it puts immense stress on the person's psyche to cut their own life into two parts, which is likely to literally drive them insane. Psychological health is about integrating the various parts of our psyche, not creating more partitions, especially one as severe as this.

It puts people under pressure to transition early and in haste, because pre-transition life is seen as a worthless waste of time

This one is particularly hard for me, because I am a biological mother. I had a son before I transitioned. The idea that I should erase him, or that he should be some kind of mistake I made, or that I should consider myself his father... All of this is horrifying to me. I'm his mother, and I'm happy to be his mother, and I don't want to be anything but his mother - a weird mother, okay, but a mother nonetheless.

Is it feasible to move to a paradigm where trans people are 'out and proud' and pre-transition is just another part of their life with its own joys and sorrows?

Of course it's possible. The problem is that the ones who shout the loudest in trans associations don't want it. I felt extremely constrained in the ways I was allowed to think, when I was in the community, so I left, and I imagine anyone who feels the same as me did the same. Which of course means that the problem only perpetuates itself...

The downside is being 'a transman, but not a man'.

Which isn't that much of a downside, really, because it's the only position that allows for the psychological integration I mentioned earlier. Being a transman means I'm a woman who presents as a man: this is accurate and accounts for both my physical and mental realities.

And also... Quite frankly, I don't understand the trans people who experience euphoria at being succesfully taken for the opposite sex in situations where they cannot participate by virtue of their sex. Like, if a group of men had a discussion about, say, prostate problems, I wouldn't feel euphoria that they take me for a man. I'd feel dysphoria because I'd be horribly aware that I can't participate, and that I'm witnessing something that isn't my business. So sometimes, being "a transman but not a man" is better for me!

I am aware that 'outing' is a big deal, but really it shouldn't be, because there's nothing wrong with being trans.

Exactly. It's not some shameful thing that needs to be kept secret. Unless of course you do have shameful reasons for transitioning in the first place...

That's... I can only shake my head in complete disbelief. I can only assume that this person didn't seek any psychological preparation and accompaniment? I mean, "Have you thought about the surgical complications that could arise due to your age?" and especially, "How will you handle the professional changes that a social transition will bring?" would be obvious questions to field long before launching the transition process.

Can't say I'm surprised, though. I've seen too many people just step blindly into transition. And if you ask them questions, either they deflect or "they'll see when it happens". That's a recipe for disaster right there.

As for the gender feelings, I've always struggled to fit in with Bloke Life and the sexist expectations underlying it. It never once made me feel I'd rather be a woman but I've often felt like I'm not really Manny Enough, iyswim.

I think I do. It must be hard in its own way, to feel like somehow you're not enough of, well, yourself! You're a man, that should be enough to be Manny. But no, we have to complicate the matter with things men should or shouldn't do or be. Meh.

Being here really helps clarify the thinking, doesn't it!?

Interesting posts @Seethlaw thanks

It surely is more healthy mentally as a trans person, to acknowledge your past? Many 'old school transexuals' appear to have this philosophy and seem healthier and happier for it. How stressful that must be on the mind and the body to deny/erase a pre-transition life!

Of course, they are vilified by the TRAs for this attitude- just look at the online abuse that is thrown at Buck Angel, Blaire White for example. Got to toe the party line or be castigated eh ?

Yeah, I knooooow 😭! I really messed up the title and OP, I'm sorry!

It seems to me that that place of balance and acceptance and body positivity is harder to achieve in an environment where PBs, social transitioning at school, hormones, surgery, flags, legislation, etc etc are on offer.

Obviously. When your personal, inner struggle, is politicised and ideologised, you become a tool in other people's battles, which means you lose some of your freedom of decision, either because they encourage one pathway, or because you feel like you owe someone your loyalty. And obviously, when you're a child, and one side says, "That's okay, you'll outgrow it in time," while the other side is all, "It's so exciting! Come and join us! We think you're So Special! We know exactly how to make you feel all good really quickly!", well...

I gradually accepted what they taught us: that you can't change what you are, but you can change who you are and how you live what you are. They meant in terms of education, social background, etc., but I applied it to my sex/gender confusion.

You do realise you would have a lot to offer to "trans kids" and their parents, right? Don't get me wrong! I'm not saying you have any duty to do anything. I'm just saying that you were there, you were one of them, and you found a way out. How did you do it? That would be incredibly precious information!

'Informed consent' for children about PBs has to include the information that even extreme cases of GD - like my 'I'd rather kill myself than grow up to be a woman' - can and do resolve themselves without any medical intervention.

Absolutely. And research should be done into how those cases resolve themselves. Are there common trends, or identifiable pathways? Is it just a matter of growing older, or are there psychological steps or intellectual understandings that need to be reached? And so on.

you're such a thoughtful and considered commentator on here, you're like a regular down the pub who I'd stop and have a few friendly words with 'Hiya, how are you? how's life treating you? Good? grand so! see you around. Take care. Bye now' before going to meet my pals.*

Aww, thank you - blushing !

See I don’t think that person experienced misogyny after transitioning. They probably experienced transphobia.

@Seethlaw Thank you from me too. I always find your perspective really interesting and helpful.

The idea that toys are even 'tied to a sex' in the first place is a symptom of a massive societal problem, if you ask me!

Yup! Young children don't spontaneously think in terms of, "This is a toy for boys/girls", they just think in terms of, "This toy is fun to play with!" It means nothing as far as so-called gender goes.

Moreover, there's the whole level of interpreting the facts that comes into consideration too. Like, I liked making clothes for the dolls people insisted on giving me. Well, what did that say about me? Was I playing with the dolls (girl stereotype), or was I building things (boy stereotype)? Was I play-acting at being a seamstress (female stereotype) or at being a fashion designer (male stereotype)? In the end, are those interpretations even still about me, or about the people making them??

A strong dislike of one's sexual anatomy (that would raise red flags for me in younger children)

Same.

A strong desire for the physical sex characteristics that match one's experienced gender - I don't understand what that means - surely 'experienced gender' is the one you are being brought up as?

I think it would be much clearer as, "A strong desire for the opposite sex's physical characteristics". But then that wouldn't put the emphasis on the all-important "experienced gender" - and quite frankly, it would look a bit weird, as it should.

Its misnamed as far as I am concerned, its sex dysphoria and body dysmorphia, same as any MH condition and the treatment is to be treated for your MH condition. Except no one treats the MH condition that it is.

Yes, that's another excellent point indeed.

"Gender", as in "having a gender identity"... Well, it doesn't mean anything to me. The way I see it, either you're fine with your sex characteristics, or you're not for a myriad of possible reasons, but either way there's no such thing as "feeling like the other sex" because you can never know what that feels like by definition.

I can yearn for a penis all I want. I can try my best to imagine what it would feel like to have one. Hell, I even have a mental map of my body with a phantom penis on it! And yet, it can't be said that I have a male whatever anywhere in me.

"Having a gender identity" is just a sneaky way to turn what is a very odd condition into something acceptable, and even more than that, something that must be affirmed by everyone.

Except there was never any such thing as a gender identity, but only a very strange desire for the other sex's physical characteristics. But "sex dysmorphia" is not, well, sexy, or heartwarming, and it couldn't be used to coerce people into supporting it.

Slippery slope indeed.

I also think there's a kind of old boys club common in late career which this person has opted out of in multiple ways.

Any significant period of illness, especially mental illness, can result in subtle and deniable but significant discrimination.

It's disappointing but not surprising, sadly.

I know nothing of your circumstances. I can only hope that he's old enough to be able to think about this rationally, and that he's carefully weighed the pros and cons. I don't know what to say, really 🙁

I remember reading at least part of the thread, though I don't remember if I participated on it.

The outcomes were much worse for GD subjects who received GAC than for those who didn't, despite starting off, on average, with much lower rates of psychiatric morbidity.

It's almost like making immense changes to your body is hard on the psyche...

It's still not possible to say that GAC didn't improve psychiatric outcomes compared to what they otherwise would have been... But you can say for sure that GAC is no guarantee of psychiatric plain sailing in the coming decades!

That should damn obvious to any professional. Transitioning brings its own load of psychological struggles, so even if it solves some other problems, there will still be need for psychiatric help at least for a long while. Especially for teens who are by definition at an already turbulent time in their lives, with a lot of social changes to handle as well.

Thank you!

I was an exchange student for a year in an English-speaking country a loooong time ago, and I tried to stay on top of it as much as I could afterwards. Reading in English (I discovered Harry Potter really early on thanks to an English adult class teacher who introduced us to it), watching movies in English, and then discussing stuff on the Anglophone side of the internet, all of it really helped.

That must be such a difficult situation!

I can only hope that, whether or not they are really trans, they never come to regret any decision they made, and that on the contrary they find a good measure of lasting relief or even happiness.

And I'm glad they've got a mother who is there for them! That's really important, even if they don't realise it for now.

I think that the exchange student thing must have helped a lot. An old friend of mine did similar by taking a job as a hotel receptionist somewhere in France profonde where nobody spoke English. After a year she was fluent in French & was undoubtedly aided by a French boyfriend who didn't speak English.

I realise that it's just like learning a musical instrument that there isn't any substitute for practice, practice & yet more practice. The problem for native English speakers is that so many members of other nationalities speak English (even in France😀) that it's too easy to be lazy.

Thank you for sharing, and I'm glad your episode of "gender dysphoria" passed without you needing to take radical decisions :)

Yet there are some people out there who react very aggressively when I tell my story

Yeah. Stories like yours are incredibly threatening to the trans ideology. Even if you're not presenting your story as universal, you're still showing that it can happen, that not all gender dysphoria is definitive. That's anathema to an ideology that claims that kids like you were will not desist, that they will only get worse if they are not transitioned, and that it's conversion therapy to try to help them move through it with psychiatric intervention.

To put it simply: those people don't have the best interests of kids like you were at heart, and they hate you for not conforming to their narrative.

I experienced some of that anger too, when I said the "wrong things" in the community.

It surely is more healthy mentally as a trans person, to acknowledge your past?

Right? My life is my life! Whether I presented as male or female is irrelevant; all of it is my life, and it belongs in my heart and mind. Plus, there were plenty of great things in my "past"! I don't want to lose all those good things.

If a mental health practitioner told people that in order to get better, they need to forget or deny everything before a fixed point in their life, that practitioner would be recognised as unhinged and extremely dangerous. But when trans people are encouraged to do the same, it's seen as normal and even positive. WTH??

Got to toe the party line or be castigated eh ?

Yup. Your life belongs to the party; you will live it as the party demands.

@Seethlaw as someone who has fully recovered from gender dysphoria or body dismorphia as it was known back in the stoneage when I was a kid, gender dysphoria is not a life long condition.
75% of children with gender dysphoria will grow out of it just by going through puberty if they aren't affirmed the number rises, if they are given appropriate therapy ir watchful waiting to get to the underlying issues that have triggered the gender dysphoria that number increases to the high 90s% as was the case until the 2000s.

What you list in your bullet points are all consequences of living a lie. Not gender dysphoria.

If you speak to old school transexuals they will tell you that they had to go through years of therapy to treat their underlying MH issues and fully understand that and medical treatment they had would not change their sex in anyway and was just about making them feel better about the way they looked when all other treatment had failed. All of this was before they started any medical treatment including cross sex hormones.

I guess misogyny if people thought they were a woman (if they met on the net, for example), and transphobia for those who knew they were a transwoman? Either way, something they should have counted on and prepared for.

Thank you so much 😭
I really hope that too.
i wish you all the happiness and peace in the world.

Agreed.

If I'd known of some mental health professional somewhere who could help me unpick it, I would have consulted them in a heartbeat. But even to this day, I don't know of any such person in my entire country.

Transition was the one and only path offered to deal with my situation, so I went for it, and it worked great! Really helped reduce the mental stress. But it only treated the symptoms, not the cause.