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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

446 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
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Linzloopy · 16/07/2026 13:00

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:30

Just to update, because it is relevant, trans rights activist Heather Herbert has been arrested and charged. I’m not sure what with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2ln31g8gvo

Excellent news! I'll be interested to hear what his partner "Sophie Molly" says about it all, in light of the upcoming case of Sarah Phillimore v Jolyon Maugham (concerning remarks made by SP about SM).

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 13:01

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:52

Here:
I believe that it would be Gods preference for you to be with a man but again that is nothing to do with me

I really don't care who you think an invisible man in the sky wants em to love or sleep with. You're entitled to believe in such nonsense and I'm entitled to think that believing in such nonsense as the reason you don't agree with gay marriage to be no less homophobic than anyone else who disagreed with it. Clearly I don't want to get married in a church but I think there are some amazing Christian lesbians who aren't actually less worthy of marrying in a church and are no more sinful than you, however simply by being homosexual you support denying them to the same right to marry in a church. That's homophobia whether it's apparently coming from a place of love or not in my opinion, which you won't change.

There are many churches that accept gay weddings now.

Why can't there be space for everyones beliefs?

There are accommodating churches and there are some that don't accommodate. So gay Christians do have that choice to wed in a church. But I think a lot of people of the left would want the non accommodating churches to either change their stance or close.

But I think we need to have a level of respect and understanding that goes both ways and accommodates everyone.

Can I ask, do you think gay marriages should take place in Mosques? Do you think that Muslims need to work harder to accept the LGBTQIA+ community? Or do you accept that being gay just isn't compatible with Islam and as outsiders we should respect their cultures and beliefs?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:02

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:43

I think the person would need to do some self examination, as while they may think they don't feel "hate" that have something that is incredibly motivating to them to fight against someone, perhaps with their self awareness they could explain why hate isn't accurate for them but on the end of the receiver I don't think they need to apply that level of examination to the person. If someone thinks I'm not entitled to marry or have an abortion, I can feel that's hateful. I don't think I owe that person my time to examine more nuance to it if they won't examine it themselves.

In that case, I'm afraid you will face this "hate" you believe you are seeing all your life. Because what you are seeing isn't in fact in their mind, it is in yours. In how you believe they are and what you blieve they feel.

The only way to change people's minds is to meet them where they actually are, not where you have placed them.

I learned this a long time ago. I learned it by working out in the world with people I had a lot of prejudice about, and finding out how wrong I was.

I still didn't and do not agree with their politics, nor they with mine, but they were nothing like the boogeymen I had painted them as in my mind.

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/07/2026 13:02

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:37

Your opinion that God has a plan for me and your views on marriage. You're entitled to hold them and I'm entitled to think they're homophobic. You may well think you're being loving by telling me your invisible man has an alternative plan for my life, I think that's a homophobic judgment.

Why don't you just acknowledge that it is a view with which you are in strong disagreement? Labelling people as 'phobes' or 'haters' simply for having different views on issues to yourself doesn't help if trying to create a more tolerant overall culture. We have freedom of religious belief in this country, as long as one does not try to forcefully impose it upon others.

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 13:06

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:54

@WiddleWaWa I do find it funny though that Christians such as yourself will acknowledge something is nothing to do with you however you can never help yourself sharing it so you clearly do think God's preference I should be with a man is your business. I think you should all be focusing on yourselves and your own relationship with God before looking at everyone else, but where would be the fun in that.

I've said several times on this thread that I would NEVER voice this in real life to anybody unless that person instigated the conversation and specifically asked me my opinion on the topic or religion and homosexuality. I do not preach to anyone. Ever.

I have only shared my views here in the context of this being an open forum for debate and in the context of this thread.

I very rarely, if ever, bring up my political or personal views on MN and thats even more true in real life. I just don't think its appropriate or helpful in normal conversation/friendship/acquaintance.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:07

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:02

In that case, I'm afraid you will face this "hate" you believe you are seeing all your life. Because what you are seeing isn't in fact in their mind, it is in yours. In how you believe they are and what you blieve they feel.

The only way to change people's minds is to meet them where they actually are, not where you have placed them.

I learned this a long time ago. I learned it by working out in the world with people I had a lot of prejudice about, and finding out how wrong I was.

I still didn't and do not agree with their politics, nor they with mine, but they were nothing like the boogeymen I had painted them as in my mind.

Well I'll absolutely face to while people are voting or lobby against my equal rights, yes. I'm aware of that already. Just as I'll probably be fighting misogynists and antichoicers all my life too. I don't see them as boogeymen though and just because I see them as hateful doesn't mean I'm scared by them? I simply feel sorry for them for living such a life where they look externally for people to judge, I always think caring so much about other people's lives and choices must mean someone is very unsatisfied with their own lot. I don't think it's my job to change their minds either.

TheKeatingFive · 16/07/2026 13:10

We need to become much more tolerant of people having different views, so long as these views are expressed appropriately. That's what living in a pluralist society means.

I feel some elements of the left are not onboard with this idea.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:10

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:02

In that case, I'm afraid you will face this "hate" you believe you are seeing all your life. Because what you are seeing isn't in fact in their mind, it is in yours. In how you believe they are and what you blieve they feel.

The only way to change people's minds is to meet them where they actually are, not where you have placed them.

I learned this a long time ago. I learned it by working out in the world with people I had a lot of prejudice about, and finding out how wrong I was.

I still didn't and do not agree with their politics, nor they with mine, but they were nothing like the boogeymen I had painted them as in my mind.

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to do that all. If you prefer to live in the belief you are an object of hatred to many rather than understand why someone comes to hold the beliefs they do and maybe challenge them and work towards a better place, that's your call.

But you will always be called out on it because you are accusing people of things they do not feel.

If you tell them they are wrong about how they feel because you know them better than they know themselves, of course they will dismiss you. As far as they are concerned it is you that is acting from a position of ignorance, and they therefore see no reason to take your voice seriously.

It's playing out all over our society.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:11

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/07/2026 13:02

Why don't you just acknowledge that it is a view with which you are in strong disagreement? Labelling people as 'phobes' or 'haters' simply for having different views on issues to yourself doesn't help if trying to create a more tolerant overall culture. We have freedom of religious belief in this country, as long as one does not try to forcefully impose it upon others.

Edited

I have stated more than once on this thread I fully support people's right to be religious. I just also believe in entitled to think some of their beliefs are homophobic or hateful. I also don't believe I should police my speech to spare their feelings. I'm sure those who tell me my life is a sin or a mistake can handle a word with phone in it. If they can't tolerate anyone's assessment of their views I'm not sure why they're so vocal, you can't compel people to agree with you or not describe your behaviour how they see it.

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 13:11

@pleuo @Ipsevenenabibas

I agree unquestioning acceptance is not a virtue. Moral codes are better when formed with discussion

I dont see this happening with Christianity's view of homosexuality though. Which I dont care about per se except when it comes to Christian politicians bringing their 'Christian values' to lawmaking.

Not all Christian politicians obviously

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:12

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:10

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to do that all. If you prefer to live in the belief you are an object of hatred to many rather than understand why someone comes to hold the beliefs they do and maybe challenge them and work towards a better place, that's your call.

But you will always be called out on it because you are accusing people of things they do not feel.

If you tell them they are wrong about how they feel because you know them better than they know themselves, of course they will dismiss you. As far as they are concerned it is you that is acting from a position of ignorance, and they therefore see no reason to take your voice seriously.

It's playing out all over our society.

Are you speaking of yourself or arguing on someone else's behalf? If it's the first perhaps you can explain your viewpoint better as you sound vet upset as the idea of anyone being called hateful but aren't adequately explaining why they're not. I don't think hatred is just a feeling. I'm sure many abusive men believe they feel love for their wife, whereas I would say abusing her is a sign of hatred.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:14

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:10

To be clear, I'm not saying you have to do that all. If you prefer to live in the belief you are an object of hatred to many rather than understand why someone comes to hold the beliefs they do and maybe challenge them and work towards a better place, that's your call.

But you will always be called out on it because you are accusing people of things they do not feel.

If you tell them they are wrong about how they feel because you know them better than they know themselves, of course they will dismiss you. As far as they are concerned it is you that is acting from a position of ignorance, and they therefore see no reason to take your voice seriously.

It's playing out all over our society.

Also these people already dismiss me 😂 They believe I shouldn't be gay and shouldn't be allowed access to an abortion. I don't know where you got the idea at all that I feel it's my job to change these people's patriarchal minds. If you want to do that, knock yourself out. I'll keep calling them as I see them, which is ignorant, sad and hateful.

Bosky · 16/07/2026 13:14

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 11:30

You take it wrong. And this isn't even touching on her tweets.

"In an attempt to demonstrate her understanding of where transgender people are coming from, Rowling even says she too might have considered transitioning had the option been available to her as a teenager. “The allure of escaping womanhood would have been huge, “ she writes. “If I’d found community and sympathy online that I couldn’t find in my immediate environment, I believe I could have been persuaded to turn myself into the son my father had openly said he’d have preferred.”

The belief that gender identity is a phase, a choice, or something that is influenced by other people is a stereotype that minimizes the struggles of anyone who experiences gender dysphoria. Transitioning isn’t easy but Rowling seems to be saying people can choose to transition on a whim simply because they think it’s more convenient to be one gender than another.

In her essay, Rowling goes on to reveal that she is a domestic and sexual abuse survivor and those experiences have made her even more focused on biology, “out of solidarity with the huge numbers of women who have histories like mine, who’ve been slurred as bigots for having concerns around single-sex spaces.”
Referring to the debate around public washrooms in particular, Rowling claims she’s concerned for the safety of cis women and girls. “When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman—and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones—then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside.”

Throughout her essay, Rowling talks about how easy it is for a biological man to become a woman in the eyes of the law and how potentially dangerous that could be for cis women. The fear that a large number of transgender women are just men who want to be able to use women-only spaces unchecked is a harmful stereotype that paints trans people as predators instead of just human beings who want to live their lives.

In her attempt to defend herself against the TERF label, Rowling just ended up providing more solid evidence that she is one. She works hard to disguise her views as feminism and genuine concern for the wellbeing of all women, but relies heavily on a number unsubstantiated opinions about trans people that the community has been fighting against for years. Rowling sees herself as highly educated on transgender issues but she still fails to see how her views—and her insistence on using her huge platform to promote them—are hurting transgender people."
https://inmagazine.ca/2020/06/j-k-rowlings-history-of-transphobia/

The belief that gender identity is a phase, a choice, or something that is influenced by other people is a stereotype that minimizes the struggles of anyone who experiences gender dysphoria.

What happened to, "You don't have to have gender dysphoria to be trans"? Isn't the Depathologisation the Big Thing now?

Is it a "phase"? 🤔

Organisations of and for transsexual people advised the Government more than 25 years ago that for some people this was definitely the case.

That is why time and again in various contexts and in many countries a "waiting period" or "real life test" of two years was recommended before commencing medicalisation and/or any change of legal identity status.

It is also why recent "Self-ID" schemes in different countries allow people to switch back (or to and fro) with ease. This was what transgender people argued for to accommodate the reality that "transitioning" can very much can be a "phase".

REPORT OF THE INTERDEPARTMENTAL WORKING GROUP ON TRANSSEXUAL PEOPLE
April 2000

1.14 The Working Group invited written comments from organisations representing transsexual people and others with an interest in this issue. Submissions were received from the following organisations:
Beaumont Society
British Medical Association
Gender Identity Research & Education Society (GIRES)
Liberty
Northern Concord
Press for Change
Change

1.15 The Working Group received comments from 99 individuals, almost all from transsexual people and their friends and families, and from Members of Parliament. The Group also met representatives of seven transsexual organisations (Press for Change, Change, the FTM Network, the Gender & Sexuality Alliance, GIRES, Liberty and the Gender Trust).

  1. FULL LEGAL RECOGNITION

(i) Living in the role of the new gender
4.7 This is the point at which transsexual people can at present be issued with passports, driving licences etc. in their new identity. But at this stage there is a significant chance that some people will revert to their birth gender; and the person concerned will still bear most of the physical characteristics of their birth sex.

(ii) Hormonal Treatment
4.8 At this stage the person concerned will have sought medical intervention. Their body will have at least some physical characteristics of the opposite gender; and although they will still have many physical characteristics of their birth sex they are unlikely to be able to have children. There is however still a chance of reversion to the birth gender.

(iii) After Surgery
4.10 A transsexual person who has had, for example, breast implantations or a double mastectomy, combined with hormone treatment, will have clear physical attributes of the opposite gender. There is a reasonable expectation that the change of gender will be permanent, although the possibility of a reversion to the birth sex cannot be ruled out.

  1. CONCLUSION
5.1 Transsexual people deal with their condition in different ways. Some live in the opposite sex without any treatment to acquire its physical attributes. Others take hormones so as to obtain some of the secondary characteristics of their chosen sex. A smaller number will undergo surgical procedures to make their bodies resemble, so far as possible, those of their acquired gender. The extent of treatment may be determined by individual choice, or by other factors such as health or financial resources. Many people revert to their biological sex after living for some time in the opposite sex, and some alternate between the two sexes throughout their lives.

Download:
sex-matters.org/posts/other-resources/report-of-the-interdepartmental-working-group-on-transexual-people/

It's not that you transactivists can't make up your minds about anything, it's that you change the narrative depending what point you want to make.

You built your house on shifting sands, your weak foundations are falling apart and now that it is all crashing down you are lashing out in frustration and bitter fury - but you have only yourselves to blame.

I have read Ann Widdecombe's contributions to debates during passage of the Gender Recognition Bill through Parliament in 2003 and 2004. She saw right through the smokescreens thrown up and spoke out repeatedly. Most damning, I imagine, was her determined advocacy for the protection of the interests of "trans widows". The boys have never forgiven her for that, have they?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:15

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:12

Are you speaking of yourself or arguing on someone else's behalf? If it's the first perhaps you can explain your viewpoint better as you sound vet upset as the idea of anyone being called hateful but aren't adequately explaining why they're not. I don't think hatred is just a feeling. I'm sure many abusive men believe they feel love for their wife, whereas I would say abusing her is a sign of hatred.

I'm arguing for tolerance and understanding over division and lazy stereotyping. On both sides.

Im arguing for ways for society to get back to something progressive and cohesive rather than seeking and celebtrating divisions and fractures.

I'm arguing against your belief that once you have decided someone is "hateful" that's all you need to know about them.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:16

@FlirtsWithRhinos
If you tell them they are wrong about how they feel because you know them better than they know themselves, of course they will dismiss you. As far as they are concerned it is you that is acting from a position of ignorance, and they therefore see no reason to take your voice seriously.

I'd say this is advice for those who feel the need to tell gay people how to lives their lives to be honest. I wouldn't even think about these people if they weren't continually telling the rest of us how to live, think, love.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:17

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:16

@FlirtsWithRhinos
If you tell them they are wrong about how they feel because you know them better than they know themselves, of course they will dismiss you. As far as they are concerned it is you that is acting from a position of ignorance, and they therefore see no reason to take your voice seriously.

I'd say this is advice for those who feel the need to tell gay people how to lives their lives to be honest. I wouldn't even think about these people if they weren't continually telling the rest of us how to live, think, love.

It's advice for everyone. That's my point.

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/07/2026 13:18

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:07

Well I'll absolutely face to while people are voting or lobby against my equal rights, yes. I'm aware of that already. Just as I'll probably be fighting misogynists and antichoicers all my life too. I don't see them as boogeymen though and just because I see them as hateful doesn't mean I'm scared by them? I simply feel sorry for them for living such a life where they look externally for people to judge, I always think caring so much about other people's lives and choices must mean someone is very unsatisfied with their own lot. I don't think it's my job to change their minds either.

Except in most cases people who hold views different to your own have arrived there through their own lines of reasoning and according to their own, often complex, moral frameworks. It is not about being. 'hateful'.

It is surely a waste of emotional energy to spend it fighting people all of the time or in directing negative emotion or personal hostility towards others for holding different views.The best way is surely to be open to reasoned discussion and to be prepared to listen to why others have reached the views they have. You may well still not agree with them on certain issues, but at least you can see them as human beings and not as enemies. When we personalise such issues it can consume us with hatred and negative feeling ourselves, and that is just not a healthy place to be.

I don't think Anne Widdicombe was a hateful person at all; quite the contrary...although I do think there are some fundamentalist religious/political people/groups who are motivated by intense animosity. Terrorists and others, for example, who act in violent ways in pursuit of their reliigious or political beliefs or ideologies.

Limecar · 16/07/2026 13:19

I was curious about the correlation of the lack of tolerance level for same sex relationships and religions. It's definitely there, with non Christian faiths being the least tolerant.

Data from the long-running British Social Attitudes (BSA) survey highlights a clear spectrum of social acceptance across different belief systems. 1]

Breakdown of Acceptance by Group
The percentage of people who believe that sexual relations between adults of the same sex are "not wrong at all" varies sharply by religious affiliation: 1, 2, 3]

  • No Religion (81%): Individuals with no religious affiliation are consistently the most socially liberal group in Britain regarding LGBTQ+ rights. 1]
  • Church of England / Anglicans (59%): A clear majority of Anglicans now support same-sex relationships, marking a major generational shift despite ongoing theological debates within the Church of England itself. 1]
  • Roman Catholics (Approx. 59%–65%): Lay Catholics in Britain have grown increasingly liberal over recent decades, with polling showing high support for same-sex civil unions, even though official Vatican doctrine does not recognize same-sex marriage. 1, 2, 3]
  • Other Christian Denominations (Approx. 58%): This group includes a wide mix; smaller, progressive denominations like the Quakers are highly affirming, while Pentecostal and Evangelical communities remain much more conservative. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
  • Non-Christian Faiths (35%): This collective category—which includes British Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, and Orthodox Jews—registers the lowest overall baseline of acceptance for same-sex relations. 1, 2, 3, 4]

Britain’s attitudes towards moral issues have become much more liberal | National Centre for Social Research

Findings from 40 years of the British Social Attitudes survey

https://natcen.ac.uk/news/britains-attitudes-towards-moral-issues-have-become-much-more-liberal

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 13:20

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 16/07/2026 12:43

His comments were vile and hateful. I don’t think he should have been arrested for them though.

I see your point, and that would be my instinct too.
But on reflection: he should be treated exactly the same way as anybody else would be under Section 127, Communications Act 2003.

As long as a law exists which places limits on absolute freedom of speech- even if you don't think such a law should exist - it applies to HH as much as it does to anybody else.

I hope he's treated fairly, and justice is done, whatever that turns out to be.

On an emotional/personal level, I'm really really glad on that he's experiencing consequences.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:20

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 13:17

It's advice for everyone. That's my point.

Well some of us are simply living our lives not trying to restrict anyone's freedoms so no it's not for everyone. I think if you think me posting an opinion on an internet forum is tearing down tolerance in society you're greatly overestimating my contributions.

milveycrohn · 16/07/2026 13:20

Regardless of what anyone thinks of AW's views, I think we can all mourn that an elderly lady was apparantly murdered in her own home.
Is the person arrested the one that said something on the lines of 'I hope she screamed in pain and fear'? A really nasty comment that was completely unnecessary.
Someone else on the TV called her a spinster/old maid, etc
you can dislike someone's views, but the correct thing is to argue your own beliefs, not gleefully celebrate someone's violent death.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 13:22

Shortshriftandlethal · 16/07/2026 13:18

Except in most cases people who hold views different to your own have arrived there through their own lines of reasoning and according to their own, often complex, moral frameworks. It is not about being. 'hateful'.

It is surely a waste of emotional energy to spend it fighting people all of the time or in directing negative emotion or personal hostility towards others for holding different views.The best way is surely to be open to reasoned discussion and to be prepared to listen to why others have reached the views they have. You may well still not agree with them on certain issues, but at least you can see them as human beings and not as enemies. When we personalise such issues it can consume us with hatred and negative feeling ourselves, and that is just not a healthy place to be.

I don't think Anne Widdicombe was a hateful person at all; quite the contrary...although I do think there are some fundamentalist religious/political people/groups who are motivated by intense animosity. Terrorists and others, for example, who act in violent ways in pursuit of their reliigious or political beliefs or ideologies.

That's a long way to say some people are religious which I already understand. I think their beliefs have no basis in reality and I have zero time or patience to listen to any of them, or what their book has to say about me, my life, and any medical procedures I may have.

It is surely a waste of emotional energy to spend it fighting people all of the time or in directing negative emotion or personal hostility towards others for holding different views

Genuinely LOLing at this being directed at me for making a couple of comments on a thread and not aimed at those spending genuine emotional and physical energy rallying, voting, protesting etc against gay people.

I do wonder why you're finding it so hard to accept I have a different view given you claim to understand the importance for accepting them. I think she was homophobic, that's my view. You're welcome to disagree, but you seem to be spending a lot of emotional energy trying to change my mind.

TheKeatingFive · 16/07/2026 13:25

I also think the word 'hateful' is ridiculously over used and not helpful. People may disagree with your lifestyle/decisions. That doesn't make them hateful in itself.

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 13:28

TheKeatingFive · 16/07/2026 13:25

I also think the word 'hateful' is ridiculously over used and not helpful. People may disagree with your lifestyle/decisions. That doesn't make them hateful in itself.

I guess "hateful" has gone the way of "nazi" and "genocide", to mean things that are not even closely related to the original meaning.

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 13:30

Genericfestiveusername LOLing at this being directed at me for making a couple of comments on a thread and not aimed at those spending genuine emotional and physical energy rallying, voting, protesting etc against gay people.

'rallying, voting, protesting etc against gay people.' -
I don't see much of that these days, equal rights for lesbian and gay people have been pretty much sorted in the countries I have lived in -obviously not everywhere in the world, but who is spending emotional and physical energy rallying against gay rights around here these days?

The only contender I see are trans rights activists who deny lesbians the right to self-determination, and appear to co-opt gay history and identity when it serves their purposes - and they are called out on that on this board.