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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

447 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
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CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 13:37

IdentifyingAsAWoollyMammoth · 16/07/2026 11:33

Yet despite being against gay rights and saying science will one day cure homosexuality, she also had gay friends. Despite her views and outspoken nature on a collective level, she could also be incredibly kind on an individual personal level and was a patron of a donkey sanctuary for over 20 years and took that seriously and helped raise and gave them large sums of money. She could also laugh at herself and not take herself seriously.

I disagreed with her on almost everything and I think it fairest to say she was a complex person.

What happened to her was abhorrent but I also believe what happened is being used as political capital by other members of Reform.

Edited

What happened to her was abhorrent but I also believe what happened is being used as political capital by other members of Reform.

Why are Reform not entitled to speak about this issue just like anyone else? She was a friend and party member - why is everyone allowed to talk about it without being accused of using it for ‘political capital’?

That just sounds like another way of silencing or dismissing views you disagree with.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 13:41

OneQuirkyPanda · 16/07/2026 11:35

She was a controversial divisive figure, so there will be controversial divisive opinions following her death.

I don’t think she deserved to be murdered or die, but not sure why it’s not acceptable for me or others to say they won’t grieve her or are not sad about her death? You can’t say one set of offensive opinions are acceptable, but others aren’t. Unless, someone is breaking the law or inciting violence it’s all just freedom of speech.

Anne very much exercised her right to freedom of speech, no matter how much she offended some people, and this is what many posters here are defending, so let others do the same.

There is also the concept of common respect and decency when someone has died.

My grandma used to say “if you haven’t got anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”.

I think that is appropriate here and will be respected by decent people.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 16/07/2026 13:41

This sounds like another one of those posts from someone who wasn't around at the time she was an MP, doesn't understand historical context, and is repeating a whole load of Internet chatter of why the political side they have chosen is correct.

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 13:42

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 13:41

There is also the concept of common respect and decency when someone has died.

My grandma used to say “if you haven’t got anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all”.

I think that is appropriate here and will be respected by decent people.

Yep just park whatever left wing vengeance or violence that is stirring.

Let it go. A female ex-MP has been murdered. Be respectful.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 13:45

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 11:39

Yet you still minimise the effect of Islamic terrorism even though it is a direct result of these hateful views.

Oh I love this episode where they pretend its the religion & not resource thievery via endless wars that pisses people off! Play it again Bibi!

And you further imply that it is inevitable that the general opinions of a former politician which were not manifested in her personal life at all caused her murder? In fact her kindness to individuals regardless of any facts of their lives was well known.

Hateful rhetoric is known to set the unhinged off on a murderous spree. See: Charlie Kirk murder, Donald Trump assassination attempts & Nancy Pelosi's husband near murder.

Are you feeling quite alight? Did your cat get at your keyboard or something?

I would ask you to try and explain your thinking but I’m not sure that’s possible.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 16/07/2026 13:46

OneQuirkyPanda · 16/07/2026 11:35

She was a controversial divisive figure, so there will be controversial divisive opinions following her death.

I don’t think she deserved to be murdered or die, but not sure why it’s not acceptable for me or others to say they won’t grieve her or are not sad about her death? You can’t say one set of offensive opinions are acceptable, but others aren’t. Unless, someone is breaking the law or inciting violence it’s all just freedom of speech.

Anne very much exercised her right to freedom of speech, no matter how much she offended some people, and this is what many posters here are defending, so let others do the same.

Why is it that people are suddenly getting up in arms over arrests and freedom of speech, when they were very happy to see the opposing side arrested for speech?

"Now that it's my side being arrested, I suddenly care about freedom of speech".

ByWittyGoose · 16/07/2026 13:53

I never heard of AW or Farage or any other controversial people gloating over the death of an opponent.

That tells me everything I need to know and who I would rather have a conversation with

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 13:54

Bosky · 16/07/2026 13:14

The belief that gender identity is a phase, a choice, or something that is influenced by other people is a stereotype that minimizes the struggles of anyone who experiences gender dysphoria.

What happened to, "You don't have to have gender dysphoria to be trans"? Isn't the Depathologisation the Big Thing now?

Is it a "phase"? 🤔

Organisations of and for transsexual people advised the Government more than 25 years ago that for some people this was definitely the case.

That is why time and again in various contexts and in many countries a "waiting period" or "real life test" of two years was recommended before commencing medicalisation and/or any change of legal identity status.

It is also why recent "Self-ID" schemes in different countries allow people to switch back (or to and fro) with ease. This was what transgender people argued for to accommodate the reality that "transitioning" can very much can be a "phase".

REPORT OF THE INTERDEPARTMENTAL WORKING GROUP ON TRANSSEXUAL PEOPLE
April 2000

1.14 The Working Group invited written comments from organisations representing transsexual people and others with an interest in this issue. Submissions were received from the following organisations:
Beaumont Society
British Medical Association
Gender Identity Research & Education Society (GIRES)
Liberty
Northern Concord
Press for Change
Change

1.15 The Working Group received comments from 99 individuals, almost all from transsexual people and their friends and families, and from Members of Parliament. The Group also met representatives of seven transsexual organisations (Press for Change, Change, the FTM Network, the Gender & Sexuality Alliance, GIRES, Liberty and the Gender Trust).

  1. FULL LEGAL RECOGNITION

(i) Living in the role of the new gender
4.7 This is the point at which transsexual people can at present be issued with passports, driving licences etc. in their new identity. But at this stage there is a significant chance that some people will revert to their birth gender; and the person concerned will still bear most of the physical characteristics of their birth sex.

(ii) Hormonal Treatment
4.8 At this stage the person concerned will have sought medical intervention. Their body will have at least some physical characteristics of the opposite gender; and although they will still have many physical characteristics of their birth sex they are unlikely to be able to have children. There is however still a chance of reversion to the birth gender.

(iii) After Surgery
4.10 A transsexual person who has had, for example, breast implantations or a double mastectomy, combined with hormone treatment, will have clear physical attributes of the opposite gender. There is a reasonable expectation that the change of gender will be permanent, although the possibility of a reversion to the birth sex cannot be ruled out.

  1. CONCLUSION
5.1 Transsexual people deal with their condition in different ways. Some live in the opposite sex without any treatment to acquire its physical attributes. Others take hormones so as to obtain some of the secondary characteristics of their chosen sex. A smaller number will undergo surgical procedures to make their bodies resemble, so far as possible, those of their acquired gender. The extent of treatment may be determined by individual choice, or by other factors such as health or financial resources. Many people revert to their biological sex after living for some time in the opposite sex, and some alternate between the two sexes throughout their lives.

Download:
sex-matters.org/posts/other-resources/report-of-the-interdepartmental-working-group-on-transexual-people/

It's not that you transactivists can't make up your minds about anything, it's that you change the narrative depending what point you want to make.

You built your house on shifting sands, your weak foundations are falling apart and now that it is all crashing down you are lashing out in frustration and bitter fury - but you have only yourselves to blame.

I have read Ann Widdecombe's contributions to debates during passage of the Gender Recognition Bill through Parliament in 2003 and 2004. She saw right through the smokescreens thrown up and spoke out repeatedly. Most damning, I imagine, was her determined advocacy for the protection of the interests of "trans widows". The boys have never forgiven her for that, have they?

Many people revert to their biological sex after living for some time in the opposite sex, and some alternate between the two sexes throughout their lives.

Lol. Cherry picking conveniently excluding a 'why' isn't the win you think it is.

"The largest study to look at detransition was the U.S. Transgender Survey from 2015 which was a cross-sectional nonprobability study of 27 715 TGD adults (4). This survey included the question “Have you ever de-transitioned? In other words, have you ever gone back to living as your sex assigned at birth, at least for a while?” The survey found that 8% of respondents had detransitioned temporarily or permanently at some point and that the majority did so only temporarily. Rates of detransition were higher in transgender women (11%) than transgender men (4%). The most common reasons cited were pressure from a parent (36%), transitioning was too hard (33%), too much harassment or discrimination (31%), and trouble getting a job (29%)."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9516050/

Detransition Among Transgender and Gender-Diverse People—An Increasing and Increasingly Complex Phenomenon - PMC

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9516050/#CIT0004

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 13:54

milveycrohn · 16/07/2026 13:20

Regardless of what anyone thinks of AW's views, I think we can all mourn that an elderly lady was apparantly murdered in her own home.
Is the person arrested the one that said something on the lines of 'I hope she screamed in pain and fear'? A really nasty comment that was completely unnecessary.
Someone else on the TV called her a spinster/old maid, etc
you can dislike someone's views, but the correct thing is to argue your own beliefs, not gleefully celebrate someone's violent death.

Yes, trans rights activist Heather Herbert. I’m not sure the police have said that it’s definitely that comment he’s been arrested for, the headlines imply this but his social media is a misogynistic binfire.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 16/07/2026 13:55

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 16/07/2026 12:43

His comments were vile and hateful. I don’t think he should have been arrested for them though.

I don’t think he should have been arrested for his comments about Ann Widdecombe, which were merely expressing hatred, but he should have done for the comment about showing bullets because that incites violence.
It’s disappointing that women and particularly gender critical feminists have been so disregarded that nobody in authority has taken any notice of such dangerous and law breaking posts until now, but hopefully this will bring more attention to them as they will help to show his Widdecombe posts are part of a pattern of behaviour.

IdentifyingAsAWoollyMammoth · 16/07/2026 14:00

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 13:37

What happened to her was abhorrent but I also believe what happened is being used as political capital by other members of Reform.

Why are Reform not entitled to speak about this issue just like anyone else? She was a friend and party member - why is everyone allowed to talk about it without being accused of using it for ‘political capital’?

That just sounds like another way of silencing or dismissing views you disagree with.

Entitled to, yes. But they are using it to talk about MPs security (despite the fact that Ann wasn't an MP so wouldn't have helped), and despite Farage turning down the security offered to all MPs. There was a Reform councillor who declared a Labour MP (I think Natalie Fleet) should be shot yet Farage refused to condemn it. Sarah Pochin laughed about Keir Starmer's house being subject to an arson attack. Farage was performative about his wreath laying in Haytor, telling the media when they should start filming him. I could go on. They're hypocrites and there is difference between speaking out and using it for your own ends.

Bosky · 16/07/2026 14:01

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:48

The distress people feel is literally perpetuated though by the discrimination they face and people with political power, like AW making their lives harder. It's a massive reach to say anyone doing so genuinely cares about that person's distress when they actively want to restrict that person's freedom. I also disagree about the comments on a cure,.you're referencing her more recent comments where she made a comparison with trans, but she has advocated for gay conversion therapy throughout her political career.

she has advocated for gay conversion therapy throughout her political career.

She is on record as having mentioned "gay conversion therapy" less than a handful of times in a political career lasting nearly 40 years.

In those instances she was talking about an ethical issue, ie. if there might in future be scientific advances that would assist people who would prefer not to be homosexual whether it would be ethical to deny them access to that treatment.

That is a very far cry from "advocating for gay conversion therapy" and I still cannot get over the gross exaggeration of "throughout her political career"!

If you are going to make claims like that then you really need to provide some evidence.

This is an interesting article with an example of how her views on homosexuality were misrepresented in the press for click-bait but in a sneaky way so that the publisher could dodge a claim for libel.

Ann Widdecombe says she's not homophobic but 'misquoted'
25 July 2021
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/ann-widdecombe-says-shes-not-5697463

Incidentally, I find it very odd that "political lesbians" who wang on interminably about how all women would be better off ditching men for lesbian relationships are nevertheless disapproving of "gay conversion therapy" and also resent cross-dressing men telling them that they can "get over their genital fetish".

Is advocating for "converting" people's sexuality only bad when straight people do it?

Ann Widdecombe says she's not homophobic but 'misquoted'

The former MP has been involved in multiple controversies in her career

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/ann-widdecombe-says-shes-not-5697463

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 14:01

Heather Herbert has been arrested so anyone thinking condoning violence against Ann Widdecombe online is a good idea should probably look at him and think again.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 14:02

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:48

The distress people feel is literally perpetuated though by the discrimination they face and people with political power, like AW making their lives harder. It's a massive reach to say anyone doing so genuinely cares about that person's distress when they actively want to restrict that person's freedom. I also disagree about the comments on a cure,.you're referencing her more recent comments where she made a comparison with trans, but she has advocated for gay conversion therapy throughout her political career.

But you’ve made it very clear you don’t believe in God. So why do you want to be able to marry in church?

I think you have over simplified and misrepresented her views. Why do you ignore the personal accounts of those gay people that knew her and the context around her views? She was born in a very different era.

FKAT · 16/07/2026 14:03

Regarding 'hate', this is a section from Jessica Mitford's autobiography where she (a socialist who fought against Franco) describes her beloved sister (a Nazi and friend of Hitler).

"I pondered over the unsolvable riddle: why had she, to those of us who knew her the most human of people, turned her back on humanity and allied herself with those grinning beasts and their armies of robot goose-steppers?

How could Boud, a person of enormous natural taste...have embraced their crude philistinism? She had been an eccentric all her life...yet she had enthusiastically adopted the most deadeningly conformist of all philosophies. She was always a terrific hater - so were all of us...but I had always thought she hated intelligently...But when she wrote gaily off to Der Sturmer 'I want everyone to know I am a Jew-hater' I felt she had forgotten the point of hating, and had once and for all put herself on the side of the hateful."

The thing that strikes me here is how Jessica (a leftist) thinks there is a right way to hate - rather than hate itself being the problem. I see a lot of parallels with the use of 'Hate' by left wing discourse now and how there is constant projection of hate onto other groups and opponents. Hope Not Hate being a prime example. It's a usefully nebulous term 'hate' - both emotional and also carrying a legal weight, a greater risk of punishment if hate is involved. But you can't throw 'hate' around without some of it sticking to you. To 'hate' the hateful, surely makes you hateful?

pleuo · 16/07/2026 14:09

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 13:11

@pleuo @Ipsevenenabibas

I agree unquestioning acceptance is not a virtue. Moral codes are better when formed with discussion

I dont see this happening with Christianity's view of homosexuality though. Which I dont care about per se except when it comes to Christian politicians bringing their 'Christian values' to lawmaking.

Not all Christian politicians obviously

The question of gay marriage is hotly contested and much debated in Christian churches. It's far from being an issue that is just unquestioningly accepted.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 16/07/2026 14:11

"But she didn't support gay marriage!"

Gay rights group Stonewall didn't support gay marriage at the time either.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 14:15

Bosky · 16/07/2026 14:01

she has advocated for gay conversion therapy throughout her political career.

She is on record as having mentioned "gay conversion therapy" less than a handful of times in a political career lasting nearly 40 years.

In those instances she was talking about an ethical issue, ie. if there might in future be scientific advances that would assist people who would prefer not to be homosexual whether it would be ethical to deny them access to that treatment.

That is a very far cry from "advocating for gay conversion therapy" and I still cannot get over the gross exaggeration of "throughout her political career"!

If you are going to make claims like that then you really need to provide some evidence.

This is an interesting article with an example of how her views on homosexuality were misrepresented in the press for click-bait but in a sneaky way so that the publisher could dodge a claim for libel.

Ann Widdecombe says she's not homophobic but 'misquoted'
25 July 2021
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/ann-widdecombe-says-shes-not-5697463

Incidentally, I find it very odd that "political lesbians" who wang on interminably about how all women would be better off ditching men for lesbian relationships are nevertheless disapproving of "gay conversion therapy" and also resent cross-dressing men telling them that they can "get over their genital fetish".

Is advocating for "converting" people's sexuality only bad when straight people do it?

"sneaky" As in her own demented admissions?

"In her column in the Daily Express, she questions the lack of availability of therapy for “gays who do not want to be gay”.

Widdecombe wrote about the case of Lesley Pilkington, who was found guilty of malpractice by the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy last year.

She argues that if a gay person wants to change their sexuality, professional help should be available to them, despite a lack of scientific evidence for it working.

She wrote: “When I was training as a Samaritan in the Eighties the first principle was never to dismiss another’s priorities.

“If a man rang in and said he was gay we should never say, “Oh, that doesn’t matter, it’s OK to be gay,” if he took the opposite view.”

https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/02/02/ann-widdecombe-let-unhappy-gays-try-to-turn-straight/

Ann Widdecombe: Let unhappy gays try to turn straight

Ann Widdecombe has backed the ability of therapists to offer so-called 'gay cure' treatments to clients who want to become straight.

https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/02/02/ann-widdecombe-let-unhappy-gays-try-to-turn-straight/

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 14:17

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 13:30

Genericfestiveusername LOLing at this being directed at me for making a couple of comments on a thread and not aimed at those spending genuine emotional and physical energy rallying, voting, protesting etc against gay people.

'rallying, voting, protesting etc against gay people.' -
I don't see much of that these days, equal rights for lesbian and gay people have been pretty much sorted in the countries I have lived in -obviously not everywhere in the world, but who is spending emotional and physical energy rallying against gay rights around here these days?

The only contender I see are trans rights activists who deny lesbians the right to self-determination, and appear to co-opt gay history and identity when it serves their purposes - and they are called out on that on this board.

Really? Where is it you live that you're not aware at all of any political campaigns or parties that approve revoking gay marriage? Homosexual violence just became aggravated in line with other offenses recently. I think suggesting gay rights the UK or Europe or America is a done issue is disingenuous especially with the rise of Christian fascism.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 14:18

PaperWalkAndTalk · 16/07/2026 14:11

"But she didn't support gay marriage!"

Gay rights group Stonewall didn't support gay marriage at the time either.

But crucially not for the same reasons.

"Stonewall initially did not support same-sex marriage due to philosophical debates over "equality versus liberation" and specific political tactics. Early radical activists saw marriage as an oppressive, heteronormative institution, preferring to deconstruct societal norms. Later, UK-based charity Stonewall focused on securing civil partnerships instead."

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 16/07/2026 14:18

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 13:11

@pleuo @Ipsevenenabibas

I agree unquestioning acceptance is not a virtue. Moral codes are better when formed with discussion

I dont see this happening with Christianity's view of homosexuality though. Which I dont care about per se except when it comes to Christian politicians bringing their 'Christian values' to lawmaking.

Not all Christian politicians obviously

I assure you, and @Genericfestiveusername, it’s not unquestioned at all!

There’s constant debate and discussion in church circles about where, when and how same sex couples can marry in church. You say we shouldn’t be thinking about how you live your life- we have to! We’re part of conversations about changing law to allow it. Balancing the drive to allow it with the knowledge that the bigger chunk of the Anglican Church has effectively cast us out (of Anglicanism!) for doing wedding blessings within a service.

If you think there’s unquestioning acceptance of the current status quo, you don’t know much about the UK church.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 14:18

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 14:02

But you’ve made it very clear you don’t believe in God. So why do you want to be able to marry in church?

I think you have over simplified and misrepresented her views. Why do you ignore the personal accounts of those gay people that knew her and the context around her views? She was born in a very different era.

I may not want to personally, that doesn't mean it's acceptable for someone else to say I'm not entitled to, given there are lesbians who are very religious and do want a religious wedding. I don't buy into the "seperate but equal" argument given by Christian homophobes. She was born in a different era so what? She voted against gay rights her entire political career and didn't support my right to abortion as a woman. I don't have to agree with her views.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 16/07/2026 14:20

ByWittyGoose · 16/07/2026 13:53

I never heard of AW or Farage or any other controversial people gloating over the death of an opponent.

That tells me everything I need to know and who I would rather have a conversation with

That’s going a bit far! I’d happily hang out with Ann, but I’d choose a different bar than Farage 😅

PaperWalkAndTalk · 16/07/2026 14:23

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 14:18

But crucially not for the same reasons.

"Stonewall initially did not support same-sex marriage due to philosophical debates over "equality versus liberation" and specific political tactics. Early radical activists saw marriage as an oppressive, heteronormative institution, preferring to deconstruct societal norms. Later, UK-based charity Stonewall focused on securing civil partnerships instead."

Same result.

People come here to claim that now allowing gay marriage restricted gay rights, but you had a gay rights organisation not in favour of it.

PaperWalkAndTalk · 16/07/2026 14:23

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 14:15

"sneaky" As in her own demented admissions?

"In her column in the Daily Express, she questions the lack of availability of therapy for “gays who do not want to be gay”.

Widdecombe wrote about the case of Lesley Pilkington, who was found guilty of malpractice by the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy last year.

She argues that if a gay person wants to change their sexuality, professional help should be available to them, despite a lack of scientific evidence for it working.

She wrote: “When I was training as a Samaritan in the Eighties the first principle was never to dismiss another’s priorities.

“If a man rang in and said he was gay we should never say, “Oh, that doesn’t matter, it’s OK to be gay,” if he took the opposite view.”

https://www.thepinknews.com/2012/02/02/ann-widdecombe-let-unhappy-gays-try-to-turn-straight/

Change your post from "sexual orientation" to "sex/gender" and then what do you make of it?