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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

446 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
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FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 12:32

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:53

But of course you’re deflecting from how crass, hateful and absurd your own posts are @Whisperingwaters

A new username but not that ones first rodeo I think. The name-changing pigeons always start out trying to portray a new voice but as the posts go on the same old writing patterns and topic obsessions creep back in.

BlessingYou · 16/07/2026 12:32

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:25

Exactly @Linzloopy. I felt the same about Charlie Kirk, another horrific murder of someone most of us disagree with on most things, about which people felt the need to post their fatuous little gloats. There are still people whinging all over the board that they were “told what to think”. No, they were disagreed with on the appropriateness of their crass comments immediately following the brutal murder of someone for political reasons.

I’ve never seen anyone claim they were told what to think about CK’s death on this board. Do you have a link?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:33

Yep @FlirtsWithRhinos

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 12:34

Thanks for the update, with any luck malicious communication, should put the fear of god into all those nasty keyboard warriors. 😁

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:34

I’m not going to start making it a TAAT. Believe me or don’t, it’s not that interesting. I was explaining why I felt what I did.

nauticant · 16/07/2026 12:35

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:30

Just to update, because it is relevant, trans rights activist Heather Herbert has been arrested and charged. I’m not sure what with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2ln31g8gvo

My guess would be Section 127, Communications Act 2003.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:35

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 12:34

Thanks for the update, with any luck malicious communication, should put the fear of god into all those nasty keyboard warriors. 😁

Yes, it has absolutely been “two tier” on that front for years.

BlessingYou · 16/07/2026 12:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:34

I’m not going to start making it a TAAT. Believe me or don’t, it’s not that interesting. I was explaining why I felt what I did.

So these posters don’t exist then.

Owly11 · 16/07/2026 12:36

What a load of absolute tosh.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:37

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 11:59

My homophobic opinion that you should have every right that a straight couple do including marriage and that I support your right to have a lesbian relationship and I do not judge that?
The fact that you didn't even read my post but called me out as a homophobe sums up everything that is wrong with the left right now.

Your opinion that God has a plan for me and your views on marriage. You're entitled to hold them and I'm entitled to think they're homophobic. You may well think you're being loving by telling me your invisible man has an alternative plan for my life, I think that's a homophobic judgment.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:41

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 16/07/2026 11:48

The concept of sin is itself not as black and white as many people make it. In order to be a Christian, you have to acknowledge that you are imperfect, and most Christians confess their own sinfulness frequently and regularly – it is an essential part of most church services, for example. So we are not accusing other people of something we don't acknowledge in ourselves. If a Christian describes any aspect of your behaviour as "sinful" they are a hypocrite if they don't describe their own behaviour as sinful also (and Jesus was excoriating towards hypocrites!). The "hate the sin and not the sinner" cliché is not very helpful, partly because it plays down the moral and ethical dilemmas we all face.

Sin is sometimes described as a falling short of the intention of God for people. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." So those who see marriage as the uniting of a woman and a man, with a reproductive function as a main purpose, may see that as an ideal. A same sex relationship can then be seen as falling short of that ideal. I'm not convinced by that line of reasoning, but I think that's where Ann Widdecombe was coming from, and that she wanted the word marriage in the context of human relationships to be reserved for something she saw as sacred. I think she saw same sex relationships as less than ideal. Personally, I think that committed and loving same sex relationships, in which the partners care for and look after each other, have a lot to commend them.

Yeah I agree with this, sadly it's not often practiced with this level of nuance and self awareness.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:41

BlessingYou · 16/07/2026 12:36

So these posters don’t exist then.

Not what my post said. Not going to argue about it.

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 12:42

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 11:42

And it’s mostly not even her words, it’s some shite TRA blog post that Whisper probably thinks is totally convincing. I’m sure it is in their echo chamber.

I know. I once resided in that echo chamber, and was absolutely convinced JKR had said truly horrible things about trans people. And since she was one of my favourite authors, I didn't want to go and read those horrible words myself, because I didn't want to get hurt even more than I already was. So I believed what other people told me about what she had said.

When I realised that maybe things weren't quite as I had believed, one of the first things I did was check her letter and her X account. Boy, was I in for a surprise! There was none of the hatred I expected, no horrible words, not even any horrible opinions. Just the measured expression of reasonable beliefs.

Now, I'm sorry for people like @Whisperingwaters , who let others do the thinking for them, and don't go check the sources. And worse: who let themselves be turned into frothing haters over literally nothing. I understand where they come from, but I'm sorry for them all the same.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 16/07/2026 12:43

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:30

Just to update, because it is relevant, trans rights activist Heather Herbert has been arrested and charged. I’m not sure what with.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2ln31g8gvo

His comments were vile and hateful. I don’t think he should have been arrested for them though.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:43

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 12:11

I'm interested in this.

If a person does not feel hate, are they still hateful if someone else believes their beliefs are wrong?

It seems to me this is at the heart of it - the assertion that certain views are an objectively true demonstration of the emotional state of the person who holds them, regardless of whether that person blieves they are in that emotional state or not.

It is very convenient for the accuser to be able to dismiss people with whom they disagree as being motivated by an irrational emotional state that exists behind their words rather than considering what they actually say and why.

And it is also never going to move past that if one person is being dismissed as feeling hate when that person knows that hate is not what they feel.

Intolerance. Prejudice. Lack of education. Getting involved in things that don;t concern you. Applying arbitrary and illogical rules. Not appreciating the challanges or needs of other people. Lack of empathy. Selfishness. Fear. All of these are potentially valid criticisms of perspectives currently being lazily dismissed as "hate". And any of these would be a more useful, more effective, place to start from than simply assuming it is an emotional "hate".

I think the person would need to do some self examination, as while they may think they don't feel "hate" that have something that is incredibly motivating to them to fight against someone, perhaps with their self awareness they could explain why hate isn't accurate for them but on the end of the receiver I don't think they need to apply that level of examination to the person. If someone thinks I'm not entitled to marry or have an abortion, I can feel that's hateful. I don't think I owe that person my time to examine more nuance to it if they won't examine it themselves.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:44

nauticant · 16/07/2026 12:35

My guess would be Section 127, Communications Act 2003.

Yes, imagine so too.

(1)
A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)
sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or

(b)
causes any such message or matter to be so sent.

(2)
A person is guilty of an offence if, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, he—

F1(a)
sends by means of a public electronic communications network, a message that he knows to be false,]

F1(b)
causes such a message to be sent; or]

(c)
persistently makes use of a public electronic communications network.

Communications Act 2003

An Act to confer functions on the Office of Communications; to make provision about the regulation of the provision of electronic communications networks and services and of the use of the electro-magnetic spectrum; to make provision about the regulati...

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127#commentary-key-cfbc75039cb81209e28431328b1f94da

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:46

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 16/07/2026 12:43

His comments were vile and hateful. I don’t think he should have been arrested for them though.

I agree with you. But a novelty to see the tables turned.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 12:48

I think people actually threatening violence have committed a criminal offence though. There are plenty of instances of that where the police haven’t been interested.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:48

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 12:15

You’re misrepresenting what she said though. She wasn’t presenting it as a problem that she wanted people ‘cured’, she was speculating on possible scientific advances in the future along the lines of the information being presented by trusted scientific organisations of the time that people could change sex. It’s a perfectly logical position (albeit based on the activist lies). If people can change sex, they can also change sexuality.

She appeared to be coming from a place of empathy - she recognised that some people have experienced distress with their sexuality (particularly historically in her lifetime) so was musing on whether there might be some scientific development that could help them.

The so called ‘progressive left’ are nothing but selective and dishonest when presenting their version of the views of those they dislike as fact.

The distress people feel is literally perpetuated though by the discrimination they face and people with political power, like AW making their lives harder. It's a massive reach to say anyone doing so genuinely cares about that person's distress when they actively want to restrict that person's freedom. I also disagree about the comments on a cure,.you're referencing her more recent comments where she made a comparison with trans, but she has advocated for gay conversion therapy throughout her political career.

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 12:48

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:37

Your opinion that God has a plan for me and your views on marriage. You're entitled to hold them and I'm entitled to think they're homophobic. You may well think you're being loving by telling me your invisible man has an alternative plan for my life, I think that's a homophobic judgment.

Where did I say God has a plan for your life? I believe you should live your life how ever you wish and that is between you and him, its absolutely non of my buisness and I would never give you my opinion on that as its not my place.

And my views on marriage are that you should be allowed to have a full legal wedding with all the same legal protections as a straight wedding. The only difference being that I feel it may not be appropriate for it to be held in a Church setting but obviously you feel the same way about that, you've made it very clear a church wedding wouldn't be right for your beliefs.

So not sure, again., where the homophobia comes in when I am telling you that as a fellow human being and woman, I love you and support you to live the life you want to live, i am so happy that you found love with your female partner and I believe you should be legally entitled to every protection a straight person has within marriage and every other law.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 16/07/2026 12:50

OneQuirkyPanda · 16/07/2026 11:56

To be quite blunt, I didn’t like her, I think her opinions were harmful and as a lesbian very offensive.

I think it’s awful what has happened to her, she didn’t deserve it, it shouldn’t have happened and whoever did it should be punished, but I am not sad she is dead, I will not mourn or grieve her as I found her deeply unpleasant.

I think it is my right to express that opinion, just as she expressed many opinions that I found deeply offensive. I certainly am not happy she was murdered, but I am not sad she is dead, and I think myself and others have every right to say that and we should not have to hide, censor or sugar coat our opinions because it is offensive to some people.

Was she deeply unpleasant as you say?
She had a lot of friends, of all different persuasions and preferences.
She appears to have been unfailingly kind in her personal dealings with people. To have been deeply involved in charities, both with personal support and donations.

I defend your right to call her beliefs and opinions unpleasant.
I disagree with almost everything she supported (I’m a female leader in church, for example). I support same sex civil marriage, and think religious marriage is between God and the couples (and the officiant).
I disagree with you calling her a deeply unpleasant person.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:52

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 12:48

Where did I say God has a plan for your life? I believe you should live your life how ever you wish and that is between you and him, its absolutely non of my buisness and I would never give you my opinion on that as its not my place.

And my views on marriage are that you should be allowed to have a full legal wedding with all the same legal protections as a straight wedding. The only difference being that I feel it may not be appropriate for it to be held in a Church setting but obviously you feel the same way about that, you've made it very clear a church wedding wouldn't be right for your beliefs.

So not sure, again., where the homophobia comes in when I am telling you that as a fellow human being and woman, I love you and support you to live the life you want to live, i am so happy that you found love with your female partner and I believe you should be legally entitled to every protection a straight person has within marriage and every other law.

Here:
I believe that it would be Gods preference for you to be with a man but again that is nothing to do with me

I really don't care who you think an invisible man in the sky wants em to love or sleep with. You're entitled to believe in such nonsense and I'm entitled to think that believing in such nonsense as the reason you don't agree with gay marriage to be no less homophobic than anyone else who disagreed with it. Clearly I don't want to get married in a church but I think there are some amazing Christian lesbians who aren't actually less worthy of marrying in a church and are no more sinful than you, however simply by being homosexual you support denying them to the same right to marry in a church. That's homophobia whether it's apparently coming from a place of love or not in my opinion, which you won't change.

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 12:54

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 16/07/2026 12:43

His comments were vile and hateful. I don’t think he should have been arrested for them though.

Although I do agree with this I think the police have backed themselves into a corner with all the arrests they made of women (and Graham Lineham etc) at the request of TRAs,

Non of those arrests should have been made in the first place, but they were and now we have a situation where the TRAs tactics have slapped them in their own faces, essentially.

The tool they weaponised has been established and now they have to be held to those standards too.

Genericfestiveusername · 16/07/2026 12:54

@WiddleWaWa I do find it funny though that Christians such as yourself will acknowledge something is nothing to do with you however you can never help yourself sharing it so you clearly do think God's preference I should be with a man is your business. I think you should all be focusing on yourselves and your own relationship with God before looking at everyone else, but where would be the fun in that.

Losingtheplot2016 · 16/07/2026 12:58

i think it may actually expose hate on the left. And murderous hate.

There’s a Puritanism on the left which has become more isolationist and polarised - ‘this view good’ , ‘that view bad’.

Swipe left for the next trending thread