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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

446 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 09:44

The OP - who I acknowledge has repeated several times that AW's murder cannot be justified - doesn't seem to grasp the difference between 'disagreement' and 'hate'.

AW would have disagreed with me being a lesbian, she might well have considered it an aberration, probably even a sin, and she apparently at one point suggested that there might be a 'cure' found which would make people like me heterosexual.

But there's no evidence that she hated lesbian and gay people. Disagreeing with something while not hating the people who do not disagree with it is an important distinction. It may be subtle, but it's not obscure, it has been an accepted attitude to disagreement for centuries in both public and private life.

The OP seems to be coming from a very polarised position where extending to a murdered woman 'the sad immunities of the grave' in the period following her death is somehow the same as 'pretending she's a saint'.

What the OP offers is not a commentary on or a solution to the 'If you don't agree with me, you are being hateful, because disagreement with me = hate' attitude, it is a continuation of it.

RIP AW, somebody I profoundly disagreed with, but didn't hate, nor do I believe that she hated the people she disagreed with.

sanluca · 16/07/2026 09:46

Are you suggesting women asking for a male free changing room at work is the cause of hate and leading to violence? It is an injustice if a male coworker can't use the women changing room at work this is hate and breeds hate? That is a very misogynistic point of view. You can say it, but most women will disagree with you and think your point of view is shit

sanluca · 16/07/2026 09:47

sanluca · 16/07/2026 09:46

Are you suggesting women asking for a male free changing room at work is the cause of hate and leading to violence? It is an injustice if a male coworker can't use the women changing room at work this is hate and breeds hate? That is a very misogynistic point of view. You can say it, but most women will disagree with you and think your point of view is shit

Sorry this was for @Whisperingwaters

pleuo · 16/07/2026 09:49

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:36

And just who is responsible for the public discourse deteriorating to such an extent?

A toxic combination of a steady diet of dehumanisation & demonisation that passes for 'free speech' these days teamed with a removal of rights isn't going to end in kumbaya.

Its going to end in escalation. Injustice breeds vigilantism & violence. Hate breeds hate. So pointing the finger at the consequences does nothing to fix the solution.

Edited

This is simply a justification for violence. People use it very selectively about causes they believe in. You'll hear people saying that Palestinian violence is 'understandable' because of the years of oppression, but the same people will say that Israelis should be expected to behave with responsible moderation. Or some people should be allowed to topple statues they don't like, but the people protesting against asylum hotels are beyond the pale. Similarly, trans violence is a regrettable but predictable consequence of women's rights activism, but if a gender critical woman were to go on a murderous rampage in response to years of silencing and abuse, there would be no similar equivocation.

I think the problem is that people now have causes but no principles.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:54

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 09:43

And just who is responsible for the public discourse deteriorating to such an extent?

The TRAs.

A toxic combination of a steady diet of dehumanisation & demonisation

The only people who've been systematically dehumanised are women.
And the only ones who've been systematically demonised are GC people.

teamed with a removal of rights

Trans people have not lost any rights.

Its going to end in escalation. Injustice breeds vigilantism & violence. Hate breeds hate.

TRAs are the only ones wishing and acting for this escalation. Women and GC people don't. So if it does escalate, it'll be clear where it comes from.

And just who is responsible for the public discourse deteriorating to such an extent?
The TRAs.

The TRA's aren't doing the dehumanising & demonising that be JKR & her incessant insinuations that trans people are mentally unwell violent sex predators.

The only people who've been systematically dehumanised are women.
And the only ones who've been systematically demonised are GC people.

Playing innocent about their callous mocking that you know happens routinely on this forum & on social media? A 'pick me!' is made in such ways.

Trans people have not lost any rights.

Oh, so the whole SC ruling changed nothing? Okaaaay.

TRAs are the only ones wishing and acting for this escalation. Women and GC people don't. So if it does escalate, it'll be clear where it comes from.

I would suggest a quick google of 'cause & effect' but that would be a waste of time.

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · 16/07/2026 09:55

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:36

And just who is responsible for the public discourse deteriorating to such an extent?

A toxic combination of a steady diet of dehumanisation & demonisation that passes for 'free speech' these days teamed with a removal of rights isn't going to end in kumbaya.

Its going to end in escalation. Injustice breeds vigilantism & violence. Hate breeds hate. So pointing the finger at the consequences does nothing to fix the solution.

Edited

So by not doing what TRAs demand, woman are responsible for being attacked and threatened?
Dear me.. it’s still such a misogynistic “she was asking for it”
stance @Whisperingwaters isnt it?

pleuo · 16/07/2026 09:55

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 09:44

The OP - who I acknowledge has repeated several times that AW's murder cannot be justified - doesn't seem to grasp the difference between 'disagreement' and 'hate'.

AW would have disagreed with me being a lesbian, she might well have considered it an aberration, probably even a sin, and she apparently at one point suggested that there might be a 'cure' found which would make people like me heterosexual.

But there's no evidence that she hated lesbian and gay people. Disagreeing with something while not hating the people who do not disagree with it is an important distinction. It may be subtle, but it's not obscure, it has been an accepted attitude to disagreement for centuries in both public and private life.

The OP seems to be coming from a very polarised position where extending to a murdered woman 'the sad immunities of the grave' in the period following her death is somehow the same as 'pretending she's a saint'.

What the OP offers is not a commentary on or a solution to the 'If you don't agree with me, you are being hateful, because disagreement with me = hate' attitude, it is a continuation of it.

RIP AW, somebody I profoundly disagreed with, but didn't hate, nor do I believe that she hated the people she disagreed with.

Exactly this. It is perfectly possible to disagree with someone's opinions or lifestyle without hating them. But I think people who don't understand this are projecting their own inability to separate ideas from emotions. They have strong negative feelings towards people they disagree with and they can't understand that other people don't - they can disagree and feel actually quite positive.

It is also entirely normal and respectful that when someone dies, particularly in such a terrible way, for a period of time all we express is lament or pity. Commentary and criticism can come later. By starting up a dialogue about the deceased's morals or view so soon, the OP is demonstrating the lack of courtesy and respect that has just become normal and is creating the general atmosphere of 'hate'.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 16/07/2026 09:56

Why have you shoe horned this into sex and gender OP rather than the politics forum

i know why but just pointing it out

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:56

sanluca · 16/07/2026 09:46

Are you suggesting women asking for a male free changing room at work is the cause of hate and leading to violence? It is an injustice if a male coworker can't use the women changing room at work this is hate and breeds hate? That is a very misogynistic point of view. You can say it, but most women will disagree with you and think your point of view is shit

Stop lying. You know full well the ugly rhetoric that neatly packages such claims.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 16/07/2026 09:57

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:56

Stop lying. You know full well the ugly rhetoric that neatly packages such claims.

The ugly rhetoric like "sex is immutable"?

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · 16/07/2026 09:57

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:56

Stop lying. You know full well the ugly rhetoric that neatly packages such claims.

Can you expand on this word salad @Whisperingwaters ?

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:57

ALovelyPinkUnicorn · 16/07/2026 09:55

So by not doing what TRAs demand, woman are responsible for being attacked and threatened?
Dear me.. it’s still such a misogynistic “she was asking for it”
stance @Whisperingwaters isnt it?

No. See above.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 09:58

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:17

BRAVO!

There's a saying:

People write their own eulogies when they are alive.

This whole both sidesism is just a ruse to obscure the obvious imbalance in consequences between the right & left. To pretend that the impact of tiny minorities like trans people or muslim terrorists & trivialities like pronouns & not being able to blurt hate speech at others at will is some sort of existential threat that's on par with the decimation of civil & economic liberty is ridiculous.

And fancy the most hate filled media outlets that have loudly championed uncivil speech aka as free speech absolutism now crying about its proliferation?

You reap what you sow.

You reap what you sow.

What do you mean by this? Bearing in mind that you are posting on a thread where OP is attempting equate hatred that results in murder of an old lady with people holding lawful opinions.

To pretend that the impact of tiny minorities like trans people or muslim terrorists & trivialities like pronouns & not being able to blurt hate speech at others at will is some sort of existential threat that's on par with the decimation of civil & economic liberty is ridiculous.

You appear to be minimising the hundreds of people murdered and injured by Muslim terrorists in the last 25 years. Our country is currently at Severe threat of a terrorist attack, meaning that an attack is highly likely. So I think it’s fair to say that this ‘minority’ has a pretty huge impact on our lives.

You also appear to be minimising the impact of trans ideology on many vulnerable people lives including children being harmed and permanently damaged not to mention the removal of basic rights for half the population.

I agree that this ‘both sidesism’ is a ruse to ‘obscure the obvious imbalance in consequences between the right and left’. The ‘left’ are supporting Hamas terrorists who throw gay men off tall buildings and murder, rape and tortured thousands of innocent civilians, they are vile men who celebrate the brutal murder of an old lady and threaten to kill or hurt women, not to mention conditioning children into mutilating and permanently ruining their bodies. All with impunity.

There’s only one side that are spreading and promoting hatred but it’s not the Ann Widdicombe’s.

It is the current Labour government that are creating the decimation of civil & economic liberty in this country.

anyolddinosaur · 16/07/2026 09:59

Very apt username. I agreed with hardly any of Anne's views - but she was a grown up politician who didnt hate people who disagreed with her. And now she is dead, murdered in her own home. The dead can not defend themselves against your hate. Who "punches down" more than those who attack someone who is not here to defend themself?

Spoiler alert - you are hateful and you make me feel sick.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 09:59

That was a really long OP, I fell asleep before the end, the bits I read were rubbish. AW wasn't deeply controversial, just because she held opinions that others disagreed with, it didn't make her a 'hate' figure, that says more about the people who don't have the fortitude to deal with people who don't agree with them, than it says about her.
She was brutally murdered, to say anymore than OMG how terrible, how did that happen is repugnant. There's no excuse for anyone grandstanding with their whataboutery opinions, they're exposing their own lack of morals

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 09:59

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:54

And just who is responsible for the public discourse deteriorating to such an extent?
The TRAs.

The TRA's aren't doing the dehumanising & demonising that be JKR & her incessant insinuations that trans people are mentally unwell violent sex predators.

The only people who've been systematically dehumanised are women.
And the only ones who've been systematically demonised are GC people.

Playing innocent about their callous mocking that you know happens routinely on this forum & on social media? A 'pick me!' is made in such ways.

Trans people have not lost any rights.

Oh, so the whole SC ruling changed nothing? Okaaaay.

TRAs are the only ones wishing and acting for this escalation. Women and GC people don't. So if it does escalate, it'll be clear where it comes from.

I would suggest a quick google of 'cause & effect' but that would be a waste of time.

The TRA's aren't doing the dehumanising & demonising that be JKR & her incessant insinuations that trans people are mentally unwell violent sex predators.

As in where? Surely you have an example of her doing that at hand?

Playing innocent about their callous mocking that you know happens routinely on this forum & on social media?

What about the constant calls for killing and raping GC women? I think that's way worse than some mocking.

Oh, so the whole SC ruling changed nothing? Okaaaay.

No, it didn't, since it only clarified what the law had always been.

I would suggest a quick google of 'cause & effect' but that would be a waste of time.

The TRAs fucked around with women. Now they are finding out that women won't wheesht. Too bad.

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 10:00

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 09:37

We live in an era where the least succesful, most chronically online social outcasts have loud voices that are heard now. It’s made abnormal, frankly degenerate, behaviours completely normal. There's a sad irony to the fact that the #bekind mob are the least kind and most intolerant people going. Ann Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly. I am saddened by her murder and disgusted by the online response. I really wish people would remember that if you having nothing good to say than it is best to say nothing at all.

Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat ei. Requiescat in pace.

Thank you for reminding me of that beautiful prayer that has accompanied all my elders on their final journeys, and I too prayed that the eternal light that they believed in would shine upon them and that they would rest in eternal peace.

I believe AW's Catholic faith stemmed from her traditional values, and not vice versa. She was an Anglican until such time as the Church of England decided to ordain women in the early 1990s, and it was at that point and for that reason that AW 'embraced Rome', along with a number of other Anglican clergy and laypeople.

Her political and social opinions- including her opposition to homosexuality and abortion - predated her conversion to Catholicism.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 10:02

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 09:17

I'm not entirely convinced you've read the same words I wrote.

I don't think I've advocated for murder at all; political or otherwise. Or, indeed, made any attempt to justify this particular murder.
Further, I called out what happened to her as abhorrent and that my empathy went out to her for the fear she must have felt.
I'd like to think that, by any reasonable measure, I've made all that pretty clear.

But my post isn't about the question of whether this murder, or any murder, is justified based on the degree of moral stance of the victim. I will say it again, clearly for you as I think it will really help, no murder is justified.

No but you have tried to equate the hatred on the left that ends in these murders (and supports homophobia, terrorism etc) with a woman having opinions.

Most of which have been twisted, misrepresented and taken out of context to try and justify the horrendous behaviour of the so called ‘progressive left’.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:04

pleuo · 16/07/2026 09:49

This is simply a justification for violence. People use it very selectively about causes they believe in. You'll hear people saying that Palestinian violence is 'understandable' because of the years of oppression, but the same people will say that Israelis should be expected to behave with responsible moderation. Or some people should be allowed to topple statues they don't like, but the people protesting against asylum hotels are beyond the pale. Similarly, trans violence is a regrettable but predictable consequence of women's rights activism, but if a gender critical woman were to go on a murderous rampage in response to years of silencing and abuse, there would be no similar equivocation.

I think the problem is that people now have causes but no principles.

You'll hear people saying that Palestinian violence is 'understandable' because of the years of oppression, but the same people will say that Israelis should be expected to behave with responsible moderation.

Another sterling example of both sidesism in the service of cry bullying. As if Israel hasn't for decades inhumanely provoked such an inhumane reaction….just so they could justify further inhumane ethnic cleansing & land theft. It's the far right's MO to provoke people with no legal recourse to barbarity only to point to their barbarity as justification for oppression.

TheMagpieRobin · 16/07/2026 10:04

Ann Widdecombe Holding opinions that you personally don't agree with, and yes they are opinions, is in no way on any level even remotely similar to someone literally murdering her.

It is possible to hold different opinions and not murder each other, heck you can even be friends. That's what normal people do, it's what Ann Widdecombe did.

FKAT · 16/07/2026 10:06

Jo Cox also held divisive minority views but I don't recall any right wing pundit, journalist or poster writing anything like this when she was brutally murdered.

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:06

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 09:59

That was a really long OP, I fell asleep before the end, the bits I read were rubbish. AW wasn't deeply controversial, just because she held opinions that others disagreed with, it didn't make her a 'hate' figure, that says more about the people who don't have the fortitude to deal with people who don't agree with them, than it says about her.
She was brutally murdered, to say anymore than OMG how terrible, how did that happen is repugnant. There's no excuse for anyone grandstanding with their whataboutery opinions, they're exposing their own lack of morals

Yes agree.

FKAT · 16/07/2026 10:08

pretend that the impact of tiny minorities like trans people or muslim terrorists ... is some sort of existential threat

Did you mean to write that? 😂I can't imagine what's more embarrassing. Pretending that the murderers of hundreds of thousands of innocent people across the globe are not a threat or comparing them to trans people.

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 10:09

OP.

15 years ago I was in a toxic lesbian relationship. I was totally indoctrinated by the left. I spouted all the clasic tow lines and I HATED, HATED anyone with a different opinion to me. If someone didn't believe that TWAW I was incensed. I went to 'Sparkle' in Manchester. A trans pride event. Deep in the pit of my stomach I felt an uncomfortable feeling when talking to the elderly men in womens fetish gear but I pushed it down and doubled down on the rhetoric to compensate for my guilt.

Now, I have been pushed into what you would describe as 'far right'. I don't feel far right. I don't hate anyone. I don't judge by skin colour or sexuality and I absolutely wouldnt discriminate based on that. But I do now feel that TWAM, that womens spaces should be for biological women only. That The TQIA++++ is detrimental to the LGB. And I also strongly believe that it is Gods will that the sanctity of marriage be between a man and a woman.

And I understand that may be grating to hear for you.

But the basic principles of freedom dictate that I am allowed to have and voice those opinions without any worry of physical. Mental or financial (doxxing) harm coming to me or my family.

And here is the most important thing that I personally feel. ALL MY HATE IS GONE. All the hate I felt whilst being on 'the right side of history' has melted away and all I feel for people is love, hope and pity in many cases.

I've gone from hating people who have a different opinion to me ,to loving and praying for them.

For me, that is the biggest difference in left/right. In my personal experience and going from a very left centred group of friends and social cirle, to a more 'right' centred circle. The hate is gone. We have frustrations and grievances but they are not expressed in the same way. There is way more RESPECT, understanding and tolerance here. Which seems contradictive to what we are told/what is pushed on us in the media

But that is my genuine lived experience.

When a leftist has an extreme opinion (and lets be honest, saying that a biological man with a functioning penis is a woman IS an extreme opinion, we have just been pushed so far now that its almost become a normal thing to hear) the difference is, is that the right do not think it shouldn't be voiced.

The right believe in free speech and freedome of expression. The problem starts when it crosses over into the tangible and physical world and puts women in danger.

But the left see words 'as literal violence'
Their biggest tool is silencing people a d that is VERY worrying.

And again, the hypocrisy cannot be ignored, that the left ONLY WANT TO SILENCE CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHICS OF PEOPLE, whilst supporting other demographics that have more extreme views on similar issues!!

The left have begun eating their own tails in a twisted cycle of hate. And ironically they preach about 'inclusiveness, diversity and human rights' whilst attempting to shut down women for speaking up for their beliefs.

Yes Ann W was a Christian. No she didn't support gay rights or trans people. MANY people don't. That is ALLOWED. As long as people are not inciting violence (Again ironic...Arm the dolls for example) people are allowed to say these things and have these opinions.

The left have pushed this 'be kind' rhetoric so far that they have literally destroyed their own thesis and become the enemy they set out to conquer.

If there was a Prowomens/ LGB march and a single transwoman attended in protest would he be safe?

How safe would a woman wearing an 'adult human female' be at a leftist/ trans march be?

Genuinely consider that, please.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 10:10

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change.

I’d like to see evidence of this ‘homophobia’ from Ann because I happen to know of her personal interactions with several gay people and she was delightful. As I said before, many of her views have been distorted and taken out of context to further a nasty agenda.

Do you have the same level of criticism for the large proportion of Muslims in this country that hold similar opinions? What about the Muslims in other countries that punish homosexuality with death? What about the Muslims who hold those opinions that move here?