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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe

446 replies

YourHateIsShowing · 16/07/2026 08:41

The Daily Express and others claiming the reaction to Ann Widdecombe’s death has somehow “exposed the left” as hateful, is nonsense as usual.

There is hate on the left. Without question. There’s also hate on the right. There are totally extreme nut jobs on both sides, too. Neither side has a total monopoly on either. But I think it’s pretty lazy to not see past the noise and understand the origin of hatred on any side of conflict. Context is everything. And most can agree with that when it comes to certain situations. As a mother, I understand the hatred a mother would feel towards a drunk driver who ended their child’s life through one careless selfish decision to drive home from the pub intoxicated. Or for worse crimes we know exist. I’m using these examples simply to make the case that our value systems should be consistent. Not to imply the level of harm is the same in all cases. That would be an overreach.

Ann Widdecombe was a deeply controversial politician. She was unapologetic about her views on immigration, LGBTQ+ rights, welfare and poverty. I remember her response when challenged about people who couldn’t afford a cheese sandwich: her answer amounted to, “Don’t have a cheese sandwich then.” I’ve watched her for years as a speaker on right wing conservative talking points; she dedicated her life to politics, but very often in ways that supported the structural degradation of groups of already marginalised people in society. So I loathed what she stood for and I make no secret of that.
And why should others who were actually targeted or harmed by the spread of her views suddenly be expected to pretend she was a saint because of what happened to her? Or be quiet? Widdecombe was anything a saint and anything but quiet throughout her political career. Death doesn’t erase public record.

What I will say though, is this: what happened to her was awful. Abhorrent. What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things. Views that had influence. That doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. I feel for her, and her family. She would have been scared. She has my empathy for that. In spades. But I certainly don’t think others who were the focus of her intolerance should be expected to rewrite history or suppress honest criticism of the suffering she supported within society, out of respect for some weird convention that says we should only speak well of the dead. I don’t buy into that.

I’m sure Ann loved her family, had close friends, and watered all her house plants. I don’t see the world in terms of heroes and villains. We can be either at any time under different circumstances. But for those who’ve maybe read 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, you may also find truth in the words of Covey who said “we are what we repeatedly do”. If you repeatedly lie, guess what? You’re a liar.

There’s truth in that, even though I mostly see people on a spectrum and not in the binary. I still see the small compounding decisions they repeatedly make, and more importantly how those decisions impact others. We can also accept conflicting ideas, where good people commit a bad act, for good reason. It’s complicated.
But overall, some people leave the world a tiny bit kinder, fairer and more compassionate as a result of those compounding decisions met with their sphere of influence. Others leave it more divided, more fearful or less equal. Most of us fall somewhere in between. And most have little influence outside our immediate circle.
Ann had more than the average bod, so I hold her and other public figures to a higher standard. She didn’t stack up, for me.

Ann Widdecombe accepted and even defended policy that saw totally unnecessary poverty and hunger (children included), in the 6th richest country in the world. She stood against abortion in cases of rape. And she consistently fought against gay rights. She repeatedly contributed to this. This is who she was. What she stood for. And what those who support her stand for.

So what the right read as hatred among the left today, in the wake of this awful event that brought her world views into sharp focus, I read as an intolerance not of her skin colour, or her sexual orientation, or her nationality, but of all she stood for and against; all she was intolerant of in people without choices.

Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance explains this best, I think. If you’ve not come across it, it’s essentially characterised by an intolerance of intolerance itself. The difference is this: to be intolerant of someone’s skin colour, ethnicity, or other things they cannot change, such as their sexual orientation, or even level of poverty, certainly if you’re still a child born into it, is not the same as having an intolerance of those who punch down at them from a place of privilege.

Ann Widdecombe was openly homophobic and believed science should one day cure it, as if being gay were a disease to be eradicated. That’s a profound intolerance of something people cannot change. The same cannot be said of a worldview built on prejudice, bigotry or theocratic ideology. Those are beliefs. They’re decisions. They can be questioned, challenged and changed. Even after death. And if she and others like her directed more of their intolerance towards harmful ideas, rather than towards people for who they are, and for that which they cannot change, we’d have less hatred on both sides. But the root of that hatred, is glaringly obvious when you actually take the time to analyse it. Spoiler alert: it’s not coming from the left.

So this headline can get in the bin.
Where it belongs.

Right-wing press perpetuating hate over Widdecombe
OP posts:
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Olderbutt · 16/07/2026 10:14

Screamingabdabz · 16/07/2026 08:57

Your post is abhorrent. But Ann Widdecombe would have absolutely fought for your right to say it.

Well said!

FlirtsWithRhinos · 16/07/2026 10:14

Reading this post, it struck me very strongly that both the accusations of hate and the hate itself are coming from the same side.

There is a powerful movement today that is so sure of its own rightness in all things that it feels entirely entitled to avoid hard questions by claiming that even to ask them is "hate". To avoid looking at the consequences of its values and sibboleths by claiming dissent or disagreement can only be motivated by "hate".

And so they create for themselves an environment where normal rules or morality don't matter when it comes to their political opponents. Anything is justified against people who hold different views to them because "haters don't deserve any better".

It's terrifying, and it's playing out in real time now.

It's interesting that PP referenced Popper's paradox, because he also went on to say:

"I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. "

#NoDebate is the opposite of what Popper was advocating. It's only those who will not debate yet still seek to impose their values over others that we should consider limiting.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:17

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 16/07/2026 09:58

You reap what you sow.

What do you mean by this? Bearing in mind that you are posting on a thread where OP is attempting equate hatred that results in murder of an old lady with people holding lawful opinions.

To pretend that the impact of tiny minorities like trans people or muslim terrorists & trivialities like pronouns & not being able to blurt hate speech at others at will is some sort of existential threat that's on par with the decimation of civil & economic liberty is ridiculous.

You appear to be minimising the hundreds of people murdered and injured by Muslim terrorists in the last 25 years. Our country is currently at Severe threat of a terrorist attack, meaning that an attack is highly likely. So I think it’s fair to say that this ‘minority’ has a pretty huge impact on our lives.

You also appear to be minimising the impact of trans ideology on many vulnerable people lives including children being harmed and permanently damaged not to mention the removal of basic rights for half the population.

I agree that this ‘both sidesism’ is a ruse to ‘obscure the obvious imbalance in consequences between the right and left’. The ‘left’ are supporting Hamas terrorists who throw gay men off tall buildings and murder, rape and tortured thousands of innocent civilians, they are vile men who celebrate the brutal murder of an old lady and threaten to kill or hurt women, not to mention conditioning children into mutilating and permanently ruining their bodies. All with impunity.

There’s only one side that are spreading and promoting hatred but it’s not the Ann Widdicombe’s.

It is the current Labour government that are creating the decimation of civil & economic liberty in this country.

What do you mean by this? Bearing in mind that you are posting on a thread where OP is attempting equate hatred that results in murder of an old lady with people holding lawful opinions.

Lawful opinions don't make them any less hateful. Its perfectly lawful for a few major religions to renounce homosexuality but its still hateful.

And what I mean by this is that hate speech/rhetoric & injustice breeds hateful actions that shock horror even result in genocide.

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

You appear to be minimising the hundreds of people murdered and injured by Muslim terrorists in the last 25 years. Our country is currently at Severe threat of a terrorist attack, meaning that an attack is highly likely. So I think it’s fair to say that this ‘minority’ has a pretty huge impact on our lives.
You also appear to be minimising the impact of trans ideology on many vulnerable people lives including children being harmed and permanently damaged not to mention the removal of basic rights for half the population.

In the scheme of things a woman is substantially more likely to be murdered by her partner than a terrorist as is a man so it's hardly comparable. In terms of children being harmed, thats been proven more likely because of poor management & funding of the health system of which the right certainly don't give two hoots about.

It is the current Labour government that are creating the decimation of civil & economic liberty in this country.

Oh yeah they are sooo much worse than the former caring tories. NOT.

Hate speech and real harm | United Nations

https://www.un.org/en/hate-speech/understanding-hate-speech/hate-speech-and-real-harm

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:17

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:04

You'll hear people saying that Palestinian violence is 'understandable' because of the years of oppression, but the same people will say that Israelis should be expected to behave with responsible moderation.

Another sterling example of both sidesism in the service of cry bullying. As if Israel hasn't for decades inhumanely provoked such an inhumane reaction….just so they could justify further inhumane ethnic cleansing & land theft. It's the far right's MO to provoke people with no legal recourse to barbarity only to point to their barbarity as justification for oppression.

If you have no barbarity in you or your cause, it's not possible to be provoked. Hence why you haven't seen any gender critical terrorism.

It's the classic line of the abuser who says 'she made me do it'. No one can make you do something that contravenes your principles, assuming you have them.

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 10:18

MarieDeGournay · 16/07/2026 10:00

Thank you for reminding me of that beautiful prayer that has accompanied all my elders on their final journeys, and I too prayed that the eternal light that they believed in would shine upon them and that they would rest in eternal peace.

I believe AW's Catholic faith stemmed from her traditional values, and not vice versa. She was an Anglican until such time as the Church of England decided to ordain women in the early 1990s, and it was at that point and for that reason that AW 'embraced Rome', along with a number of other Anglican clergy and laypeople.

Her political and social opinions- including her opposition to homosexuality and abortion - predated her conversion to Catholicism.

You are right, well observed. Thank you for kindly highlighting this point. Ann Widdecombe did not become socially conservative because she became a Catholic. Rather, she became a Catholic because her existing traditional Christian convictions—including her opposition to women's ordination—made her feel that the Catholic Church better reflected the beliefs she already held. Her views on abortion and homosexuality predated her conversion and remained broadly consistent before and after it. That doesn't mean every aspect of her thinking was independent of Catholic theology—her faith undoubtedly shaped and reinforced her views after conversion—but chronologically her core positions on issues such as abortion and homosexuality were already established before she entered the Catholic Church.

P.S. Your previous post is full of charity, mercy and love. Three core concepts in Christian ethics. I'm not sure if you are a Christian but regardless, it moved me deeply. Thank you for posting.

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:19

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 09:37

We live in an era where the least succesful, most chronically online social outcasts have loud voices that are heard now. It’s made abnormal, frankly degenerate, behaviours completely normal. There's a sad irony to the fact that the #bekind mob are the least kind and most intolerant people going. Ann Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly. I am saddened by her murder and disgusted by the online response. I really wish people would remember that if you having nothing good to say than it is best to say nothing at all.

Requiem aeternam dona ei, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat ei. Requiescat in pace.

Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly

Why would you admire someone who delegates their moral viewpoint to a bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago?
To me it just shows a lack of critical thinking.

And to then insist that everyone else follows their rules.
I'm not sure what the word for that is but it's certainly not admirable

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 10:20

Excellent post, @FlirtsWithRhinos !

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:24

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:19

Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly

Why would you admire someone who delegates their moral viewpoint to a bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago?
To me it just shows a lack of critical thinking.

And to then insist that everyone else follows their rules.
I'm not sure what the word for that is but it's certainly not admirable

I suggest that the person who dismisses an ethical system that has had 2000 years of refinement and has stood the test of time as 'bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago' is the person who lacks critical thinking.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:24

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:17

If you have no barbarity in you or your cause, it's not possible to be provoked. Hence why you haven't seen any gender critical terrorism.

It's the classic line of the abuser who says 'she made me do it'. No one can make you do something that contravenes your principles, assuming you have them.

This is showcases an ignorance of power imbalances. History shows the side with no civil options is often going to take an uncivil approach however righteous their cause is. Just ask The Suffragettes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_Rebellion

Nat Turner's Rebellion - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner's_Rebellion

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:25

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 09:17

BRAVO!

There's a saying:

People write their own eulogies when they are alive.

This whole both sidesism is just a ruse to obscure the obvious imbalance in consequences between the right & left. To pretend that the impact of tiny minorities like trans people or muslim terrorists & trivialities like pronouns & not being able to blurt hate speech at others at will is some sort of existential threat that's on par with the decimation of civil & economic liberty is ridiculous.

And fancy the most hate filled media outlets that have loudly championed uncivil speech aka as free speech absolutism now crying about its proliferation?

You reap what you sow.

‘You reap what you sow’

On a thread about a murdered female ex MP

Are you sure you want to endorse it?

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:27

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:25

‘You reap what you sow’

On a thread about a murdered female ex MP

Are you sure you want to endorse it?

Yeah, cause I understand what 'cause & effect' means AND history.

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:28

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:24

This is showcases an ignorance of power imbalances. History shows the side with no civil options is often going to take an uncivil approach however righteous their cause is. Just ask The Suffragettes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_Rebellion

The suffragettes had plenty of civil options, as do the Palestinians and the trans activists. In the end, the non-violent suffragettes were the biggest contributors to success and even if they hadn't been, violence would not have been justified.

Ipsevenenabibas · 16/07/2026 10:29

GwenPost · 16/07/2026 10:19

Widdicombe's opinions stemmed from her Catholic faith. She was unswerving in her convictions and traditional values and for that I admired her greatly

Why would you admire someone who delegates their moral viewpoint to a bunch of rules made up by a load of men 2000 years ago?
To me it just shows a lack of critical thinking.

And to then insist that everyone else follows their rules.
I'm not sure what the word for that is but it's certainly not admirable

For people like me, who admired her, admiration is rooted in her integrity, courage, and consistency. From this point of view, having a firm, unshifting moral foundation—even one rooted in ancient religious tradition—is a virtue. Refusal to conform to shifting cultural or political trends is admirable, in my opinion. The fact that you are asking me this question demonstrates a lack of critical thinking on your part. Hope this helps.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 10:30

Lawful opinions don't make them any less hateful. Its perfectly lawful for a few major religions to renounce homosexuality but its still hateful.

It's not hateful, you may hate them but that doesn't make them hateful. To call opinions you don't agree with hateful is over the top exaggeration, that devalues any arguments you have to counter the opinion. You can't just dismiss a view with such hyperbolerly and call it an opinion, it's just a rant and why should anyone pay attention to rants.

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:31

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:24

This is showcases an ignorance of power imbalances. History shows the side with no civil options is often going to take an uncivil approach however righteous their cause is. Just ask The Suffragettes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner%27s_Rebellion

It's not ignorance, I just don't agree with you about the power imbalances you are identifying. You have a simplistic approach to power in which you pick the side you prefer and ascribe all the power to the other side.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:31

1984Now · 16/07/2026 08:48

Sounds like the same narrative for Charlie Kirk murder. That he was hateful, intolerant, bigoted. Nothing justified his being killed, but don't forget just how hateful he was.
I pretty much opposed everything Peter Tatchell said in public about women and trans and his attitudes on liberalizing certain sexual relationships, but I wouldn't express any prevarication if he was bludgeoned to death. That would be wrong. End of.

Exactly this.

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:32

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:27

Yeah, cause I understand what 'cause & effect' means AND history.

Edited

How much do you condone violence as the outcome? To the extent Ann Widdecombe suffered?

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:32

pleuo · 16/07/2026 10:28

The suffragettes had plenty of civil options, as do the Palestinians and the trans activists. In the end, the non-violent suffragettes were the biggest contributors to success and even if they hadn't been, violence would not have been justified.

That The Suffragettes turned to militancy because decades of their peaceful efforts were met with government inaction, dismissiveness, and brutal police repression is well reported.

That the Palestinians had civil options that were effective would be laughable if it wasn't so disgusting.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:34

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:32

How much do you condone violence as the outcome? To the extent Ann Widdecombe suffered?

I don't. I'm simply describing why these outcomes can occur.

Seethlaw · 16/07/2026 10:36

@Whisperingwaters

I take it you don't have any example of "JKR & her incessant insinuations that trans people are mentally unwell violent sex predators" ?

As I thought. If anyone is spouting hate here, it's you.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:37

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 16/07/2026 09:24

@YourHateIsShowing your name is accurate, from my perspective.

You equated her opinions and values to the bludgeoning to death of a 78 yr old public servant. You think her views were the equivalent of brutal murder? Your hate is showing indeed.

“What happened was utterly disgusting, AND so were her views on a lot of things”

Quite. Transparent as a window.

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:37

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 16/07/2026 10:30

Lawful opinions don't make them any less hateful. Its perfectly lawful for a few major religions to renounce homosexuality but its still hateful.

It's not hateful, you may hate them but that doesn't make them hateful. To call opinions you don't agree with hateful is over the top exaggeration, that devalues any arguments you have to counter the opinion. You can't just dismiss a view with such hyperbolerly and call it an opinion, it's just a rant and why should anyone pay attention to rants.

Hate speech refers to public communication that expresses animosity, disparages, or encourages violence against a person or group based on protected characteristics like race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation.

So yeah it comes under the purview of hate.

EasternStandard · 16/07/2026 10:38

Whisperingwaters · 16/07/2026 10:34

I don't. I'm simply describing why these outcomes can occur.

It only takes one person to justify the violent outcome. No one has to. Even on here.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/07/2026 10:38

Also, we all know why this thread has been posted in this section of the board, don’t we?

WiddleWaWa · 16/07/2026 10:38

"You reap what you sow"

So the next muslim MP that passes away, we will be ripping their religion and belief apart as part of their own Eulogy will we?
We will be condemning the homophobia within Islam and digging back on FB and X to find out how many civil ceremonies/gay marriages THEY have attended and then bring up the fact the never attended any as a negative?

Should Muslim MPs be forced to attend pride? Wear pride flag badges? Host drag queen book days at mosque?

Nobody ever answers this question.

What are tolerant Christians held to a
this standard when Muslims, who have much stronger issues with homosexuality, are given a free pass?

Most Christians do not support gay marriage but they support gay people as brothers and sisters in Christ. We do not (generally, always extremist exceptions) oppose the sinner, just the sin and understand that it is only God that can judge a persons life and choices. We may not attend a gay marriage but we would welcome that married couple into our home for a meal (just as Ann W often did!!)

Whereas Muslim countries still have the death penalty for homosexuality.

Yet Christians are the problem here in England?

Or are we just the easy target?

Should we even get into the Islamic extremist slaughter of THOUSANDS of Christians in Africa who chose to die rather than convert to Islam?

When was the last time you heard of a Christian demanding conversion or death?

I am so fucking sick of the absolutely INSANE double standards from the left.