Examples needed please

[FellOutTheLoft]

Hello, I am looking for examples of everyday sexism and misogyny of a, so called, low level. So I’m not talking about sexual assaults or harassment or catcalling but the kinds of things that highlight ingrained discriminatory attitudes towards women from men or women. The purpose is for a hearing I have to attend soon in which I wish to illustrate what day to day life is really like for women in the UK. TIA.

A male nhs endocrinologist I saw for a consultation didn’t know that it was normal to have amenorrhea while breastfeeding.

Parent of a child recently said “women are aggro though aren’t they” whilst describing the behaviour of his 4 year old daughter during a professional meeting educational about his older child.

Years of Drs visits for issues and pain for what was basically perimenopause. Reduced hours at work. I was diagnosed with hypermobility syndrome. I now know that yes, I’m very hypermobile but the syndrome part (pain, fatigue etc) is primarily caused by lack of female hormones and deconditioning.

I had hrt for a while which helped hugely; when I had to come off due to cancer I then found out about the importance of strength training to help menpausal aches and pains and symptoms. But I had to do a lot of reading and listening to find this out

Another woman I know was diagnosed with hypermobility syndrome as a young woman. She was told not to carry heavy shopping bags. She tried that for a bit and then became a personal trainer and weightlifter after realising it was total BS.

I'm waiting for a women's surgery right now. The official NHS recovery guidance says no lifting heavy weights for 6 weeks but you should be back to normal activities around 8 weeks. I dug for more detail. 'Heavy weight' is defined in NHS literature as no more than 'half a kettle of water'. 1) on what planet is that heavy and 2) I guess women are too stupid to be told an actual weight limit, but can only understand a domestic-based example.

I looked up a reasonably comparable male operation - they too are told not to lift heavy weights - which is defined as over 20lb.

So, apparently the average man's strength is about 10 times that of the average woman, and men can understand numbers while women cannot.

I am fuming about this mysogenistic, condescending shite.

They also claim that being able to walk for 30 minutes after 8 weeks is a normal activity level for women.

Being ignored in meetings. THen your idea is repeated by a man, to notice & acclaim.

In my field, academia: many macro studies show that students' assessment of teaching is a better indicator of students' sexism & racism than of teaching aptitude or quality.

Others have covered the ongoing professional belittling of women but I can also add - random comments from total strangers on my appearance, clothing and body that men wouldn't dream of saying to another man and have no reason to speak to me about but for the patriarchal attitude of women's existence being solely for the pleasure and service of men. There is no chance that in any of these cases it was just a clumsy or inappropriate attempt at a chatup line it's just that they think their opinion on my appearance/clothes/body ought to matter to me.

Examples - i go running regularly, my running kit is red. I am not trying to look decorative or alluring while running, I am doing it for my own benefit. I regularly hear comments (which obviously I ignore and just keep running) from random males who are out walking their dog or whatever, often singing or referencing the "lady in red" song and commenting on how very unsexy and unattractive I appear to them, as if I am failing in my duty to look nice for them.

Similar kind of thing but I wasn't running and wasn't looking a sweaty mess, just on a train and sorting out my bags while wearing a shirt printed with a pattern that included a particular animal, and a random man asked me quite aggressively "so are you some sort of an expert on (animal) then?" - in context i think he was feeling afronted that I was failing to "woman" properly as I was dealing with my own luggage and not simpering and asking for help from a nice strong man.

Or the time I was just walking along the street going to fetch my child from school and a man walking in the opposite direction yelled "hooters" at me - yes he had spotted that I have breasts, and felt this to be worthy of comment. (I wasn't showing any cleavage just wearing an ordinary Tshirt, not that this should matter)

Obviously a load more but I can't list every single time. It's just constant reminders that if we dare to be out in public and we aren't actively performing a role of being decorative, weak, and subservient then there's a large number of men who will take offence at that and try to think of a way to shame us into being more womanly. Though I am aware that there's a flipside to this as the women who are out in public and are effectively following the "womanly" expectations are no less subject to comments and demands for attention from total strangers. Men are allowed to just get on with their day minding their own business, women in the public space are subject to the approval or disapproval of the men who see us and a great many of them feel entitled to let us know to what extent we are succeeding or failing to earn their approval.

Much closer to home and quite recently, DH of 25 years had cause to see our marriage certificate. “Look at the state of it! It’s all crumpled”.

”Yeah, no shit Sherlock”. How many times in the past 25 years has he been asked on a form “have you changed your name? If you have, please provide proof”. He has never answered “yes” to this question in his life.

Well, yes I have changed my name (because I married HIM!) and I have had to provide proof of that change. Every, single time I have been asked.

The first one is actually from the USA.

Donald trump has wone two elections, the first was Trump v Hillary and the second was Trump v Kamala.

Cotton buds are usually cheaper in the baby aisle than in the beauty aisle.

Girls being used to police boys bad behaviour in schools. This was actually taught on my PGCE. Is it any wonder girls drop certain subjects if they have been sitting next to 'little shit' tommy for 2-3 years.

I'm 60 in a few months, I never wear a T-shirt with any writing in the front, due to having my boobs stared at as a child.

The average time to get a diagnosis for endometriosis is 10 years. Can you imagine a male illness so badly misdiagnosed or being told it is normal?

I went to the pub with a boyfriend, he had a motorbike and one of his friends asked if I went on the back of his bike.

"No, but he goes on the back of mine".

"You answer the door and get a, "Is your husband / father in?"

Children's TV has a male bias, most puppets / characters are male from Bagpuss to Dangermouse.

It's only in recent years that any TV show has two female presenters, it used to be two men or a man and a woman.

Other TV has a male bias. I settled down to watch 'The six wives of Henry VIII' presented by David Starkey.

I wanted to know more about the backgrounds and up brining of the women but no, it was all through the eyes of Henry.

I’m not sure if this is the kind of thing you’re after but it’s that annoying “bulky pee pants” advert on TV. I was talking about it with my husband and I said how neither I or any of the women I know would ever discuss urine leaking like they do in the ad and I was fed up seeing this ad all the time, it makes it seem like only women have this problem, and as if we’re all walking around practically wearing nappies with our weak bladders. He said “yeah men have this problem too” and I said “then where are the equivalent adverts?” He said he had seen an ad for Tena Men. I asked “when?” He said “once”.

I asked AI to tell me about the sexism and misogyny at play with these ads and it told me things I’d completely missed, like how the women’s bladder issues made us look like we should be ashamed of it, anxious, wanting to hide it, doing activities like yoga, the products being heavily advertised during daytime TV / evening soaps / reality TV, that both sexes watch, with a huge ad budget. Then the men’s portraying men in strong, gym going, boss in an office, ‘in control’ type situations, much smaller ad budget, shown late at night during typically male sports shows etc. It exploits female vulnerability and makes us look weak but protects male egos.

My partner used to be in the army and did her training to become a major. There was a debate task and the men received comments saying they had been assertive and confident in their points. My partner was called needlessly aggressive and argumentative in hers. She complained and the comments were changed.

DH had a female boss for a while. He sometimes had to accompany her go meetings... basically to make notes, find information, tech issues etc. (Basically an assistants job, but it had to go quite far up the hierachy due to the sensitive nature of the discussions).
Apparently the usual presumption with unknown pelple would be that his boss was his secretary... even if both were in their Army uniforms.

I volunteer as a cub leader along with 2 other women, all in our fifties/sixties. Some of the Dad's (usually in their 30s) have referred to us as 'girls' (eg. 'Thank you girls', 'Girls! I need to speak to you about camp!). They act confused when asked not to do this, or simply ignored as we are not 'girls'. The Scout leaders are all men of a similar age and I have never once heard them referred to as 'Boys'.

When my DC were very small I worked full time in a professional role and DH was a SAHP. When a career enhancing secondment with one of my clients came up, my (male) boss told the client (who I later found out had asked for me specifically) that I wouldn't be able to do it as I had young children and it involved a lot of time away. He gave the position to a male colleague who had never worked with that client and actually had a newborn at home. I was not asked for any input on whether it would be workable for me.

When DH was SAHP I was repeatedly told (by friends, family, DC teachers, people I barely knew) how lucky I was that DH was willing to do this so that I could focus on my career. DH was frequently congratulated on being such an amazing Dad and told how incredible he was for being able to look after 2 x DC alone all the time. When we switched roles (as planned) when DC2 was still small I was told how lucky I was to be able to have some 'time off'.

As a school Governor we did a few 'meet the Governors' sessions with the children (at the request of the head). Lots of the girls told us that they found it hard to play outside at lunch time because the (fairly small) playground was almost all taken up with boys playing football. The girls (and a few boys) wanted some space to do other activities. When we asked the Head about this we were told that the boys need to be able to play football at lunch time, otherwise they are badly behaved in the afternoon. Anyone not playing football (which was most of the girls and a few boys) had a small space with picnic benches, So basically no space for girls to do physical activity because boys were badly behaved if they didn't get what they wanted.

I wanted quotes for some replacement windows. Most of the small local companies were fine. The big national ones consistently said they would only make an appointment at a time I could guarantee my husband would be present. As I have no husband (they had assumed,.not asked), and because I refuse to deal with sexist arses, those companies lost any chance of my business.

Men yelling from cars. Not yelling anything specific, usually, just a random 'I've spotted a woman' roar (are they collecting i-Spy points?). This has happened to me walking home from the gym, in gym gear. It's happened to me in an actual blizzard, when I looked like a walking pile of coats. And in many circumstances in between. I'm over 50 and overweight - not that it should make any difference, but I was promised invisibility after 40 - and they're still doing it.

I was promised invisibility after 40 - and they're still doing it.

They were still doing it to my mum in her 70's though with less frequency.

She was no glamour-puss but generally walked around with a beaming smile on her face. Maybe they thought she was smiling at them? Her eyesight was not good enough for that but we know how men seem to be programmed to imagine that they are the centre of any attention going.

Aren't I lucky I've got a man who cooks his own food, cleans his own house, washes his own clothes etc 🙄 I replied with he's lucky that I do that too!

I heard a professional woman say they prefer male pilots because they feel safer. No idea what that's about.

I've heard "women aren't funny" a lot, what a load of rubbish.

I saw a consultant for several appointments who was very dismissive until I took my boyfriend in with me. When I went in with him and a notepad, he suddenly had twice as much time for me and actually got out of his chair to examine me!

I've had the usual, men talking to men about houses, cars, finance etc. The fact I know a lot more about financials than my partner means nothing. I don't know anything or care about cars but when it was for me and I was paying, it was a bit much.

A lot of men focused ads during the World Cup on ITV. I'm watching the WC while my partner has his ear pods in because he can't stand it 🤷‍♀️

Unisex.

My DD had 'unisex' overalls for agricultural college. They were 31inch inside leg, she is 24 inch. To get them big enough around the bust she needed Medium which was then way baggy at the waist.

I used to default DD's cuddly toys to 'he'. She has always defaulted to 'she', I'm learning not to do that!

Dd as an adult is not quite 5ft. Things are always too high, finding a car to drive her size was v hard. The world in general is built for average men not women.

In general, men are the default biological human. Women are treated as weird outliers.
See also women's health.

Dental x ray guards designed for men and don’t fit in my mouth properly. ‘Now close your mouth Gertie’. I can’t because it bloody digs into my gum and is a physical impossibility. See also one size fits all PPE eyewear.

Has anyone mentioned toilets? Public or in the workplace, the toilet is always in the middle of the cubicle, no thought that a sanitary bin needs to fit in there too.

I was involved in a project last week and asked one of the participants who works in the construction industry and he said it might be the local council demand certain measurements.

I agree with the PP about cars, strangely he more expensive a car the easier it was to adjust.

What really annoys me is that some things can be adjusted so easily. One college I worked in the desks (in the staff room) were down a wall and everyone had 2 shelves above their desk.

I'm 5' 0", the person sitting next to me was about 6ft so I asked if I could have both lower shelves and he have both higher shelves, a simple solution.

Women assuming other women are stupid, abused or just not women if they have different opinions to them.

The idea that women are a monolith and anyone who strays outside of these womanly expectations is a bad woman is extremely misogynistic.

I'm post menopausal. Tried to explain to the local surgery that if they were talking to my husband about statins they should also be talking to me. Womens risk of heart disease post menopause is similar to or worse than men but even when I told them that they still talk of male sex being a risk factor for heart attacks!

If you are post menopausal and not on hrt then get your cholesterol checked.

under the Equality Act you have the right to ask colleagues about their pay - re sexual discrimination.
section 77 Eq Act renders secrecy clauses in job contracts unenforceable.

Microsoft Teams will routinely cut out a higher pitched (female) voice if a lower (usually male) voice interrupts.

If two men are talking over each other, you can hear both male voices.

If a male voice and a female voice are both trying to speak the, unless the female voice is a particularly low one, the female voice will be muted so the male voice is the only one audible.

A colleague told me this. I found it hard to believe until she demonstrated it it one a call with us and two male colleagues.

If there is a problem with our child, the school always calls me and not his dad, even though they know I’m the breadwinner and work nights, he’s unemployed.

That can be as simple as your number being on the form to call in an emergency. Change it to his as the default number. The staff members arent going to look at the info and purposely choose you. They will just dial the first number they see. I know this because the number my kids schools have in emergency is their grandmother. She calls me to tell me they are sick!

When DD was 11, her cricket coach’s assumption that she did not want to move onto “hardball” cricket (traditional hard red leather balls, rather than rubber “soft” balls used by younger age groups) the only girl in the age group team. She was actually very excited about being old enough. Despite she, and I, confirming that she would love to play hardball cricket she was never picked (not down to skill, she is a good cricketer).

She changed club, now has masses of support and occasionally captains her age group team, which is about a third girls, as well as playing hardball and softball cricket for the women’s teams.