Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 7

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551375-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-6

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Can I just check my understanding here - is the Spreadsheet of Doom part of the bundle?

I don't think Amnesty has the money, anyway.

Thanks @Madcats . I'm back now, so give me a shout if needed.

HH - email from EW to yourself and others on 10/11/22 she is attaching draft of SEEN objectives, have a look at them for a moment

HH - the objectives - challenging sex discrim posting an article promoting Detrans Awareness - has nothing to do with objectives?
CA - not directly that I can see HH go back to post itself at 734.

HH - this is eg of uneven mod approach to policing trans voices but not those of GC

No! It's not Defra's fault if 'trans voices' can't keep within the posting rules

It wasn't, now it is.

I think.

HH go back to post itself at 734.... move down to 735. It's clearly a chat with RH with a member of SEEN group.
CA don't know this is cross gov SEEN
HH the reason that SEEN is promoting this post and detrans awareness is because seeking to undermine trans
CA no, it's supporting detransitioners.
HH - the entry by RH, read to next page.

Shame we can't see the Spreadsheet of Doom

Do you remember that it was asked for rather than a part of the original material (my memory says it was J who did so but don't quote me). I definitely remember a very small line in TT where NC clarified, before it appeared, how to actually have a chance at reading it - saying you had to scroll over horizontally (subtext - to find, probably, 75 percent of anything that would be relevant even when it wasn't burning out the memory chips of its respective display devices).

I know such spreadsheets of doom, and am so relieved not to have to pound my brain with one in these temperatures.

I tried, but they screen tested and said it was literally unwatchable.

I think whatever it is must be quite long....

Thanks Boily. Thought not, but it seems like several centuries ago that they discussed it. So NC hadn’t had advance notification/sight of something that HH now appears to be relying on to an extremely significant degree?

HH the reason that SEEN is promoting this post and detrans awareness is because seeking to undermine trans

Fuck off. Fuck off. Fuck off.

HH - we can see from that RH describes people stopping making comments, but then I found this staff network that empowered him and that is when I started saying everything transphobic even though it isn't. Jimmy describes this as bad advice. The purpose of this article is to have The purpose of this article is to have a go at trans networks and allies.
CA - no it's on lived experience and when so much importance placed on lived experience suprised so much focused on this. this is an article on post gov SEEN it's a personal experience, that's all there is to it really
J - clarifies where the post is. CA a link was posted in Defra SEEN Yammer group. Date of post?
CA don't know I imagine it would have been 12/3/23 if not on that date. I don't know if in bundle
J - did Defra SEEN exist at that time?
CA on Yammer a Defra SEEN group

QN: can anybody remember when SEEN Yammer was no longer public?

Yeah, we must not mention detrans. They must not be allowed to have their voices heard.

All worship at the altar of trans!

It's so utterly bonkers.

This is Ritchie Herron who the tribunal are referring to. He’s had a terrible time

‘Doctors refused to let me admit my transition was a mistake. Now I want to reverse it’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/a9f960efdaf9a44f

CA it gets confusing between defra and yammer group
J - Defra SEEN network didn't exist at that time,? Rather than go to yet another doc what date?
NC - August 2023
HH no a later post

Oh HH, I suggest that you don't query what NC has just stated: Suddenly the Magic Ring began to glow....

CAROLINE AIRS KICKS ASS 😎

CA - no it's on lived experience and when so much importance placed on lived experience suprised so much focused on this. this is an article on post gov SEEN it's a personal experience, that's all there is to it really

Was that CA hitting her "enough of this absolute shit" point?

HH - the C says the article originally contained link to Lotus Eaters. If you have the C suppl bundle and go to p214
HH - the post we see at 747 is amended version.
CA - yes HH the C describes in WS Lotus Eaters argue affirming identity is a delusion, do you know what they are about?
CA no defra has no control over this (links to Lotus Eaters)

J - was there an earlier version that does have link?
CA - I don't know this is cross gov seen
HH but does have control over yammer and a link was posted, ED describes Lotus Eaters as 'far right' , that trans is a 'delusion'
CA I don't know about Lotus Eaters

HH - pull up Moderation Log again please. Go to row 162. (Judge reads)
H - this is the mod log entry following complaint by colleague about article where a link had been put on yammer, suggests it's 13/3/22 but it's wrong, it's a typo. Look at col F it's clear what is being referred to is post 12/3/23
HH no action taken by SMN as no breach of communication princ
CA the complaint is that the subject of detrans is offensive. What you are saying is not correct.

HH is demonstrating so clearly how anyone in CS not completely agreeing with GII is deemed immoral. This is insane.

IF ED says 'Lotus Eaters' is "far right" then it must be.

( Can't say i've ever heard of this site?)

CA the complaint is that the subject of detrans is offensive. What you are saying is not correct.

Those watching can answer in break. Is CA obviously getting more frustrated or is it just the Way the tweets read?

CA - no action on post is taken, but links to external websites.
J may be me but I am not getting what this is about at all, it is intensely confusing.
J - what is correct date of complaint?
HH - 13/3/23
Some discussion about numbering of documents
J - a very long section about the what the post is about...and the decision was that there was no action was by SMN.
HH what witness has clarified, not that there is no action, no action about breach of communication

Come on, Judge, can't you get HH to move on like you do with NC?!