Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 7

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551375-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-6

TT substack: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

@ProfLargofesse thank you for the summary.
And @Columbidae thank you for the link to it.

I have zero chance of keeping up with this ET and other than some of the batshittery, I had only the haziest idea what was going on. (Man objects to GC views ever being expressed. Judge seems to feel sorry for man. Man says outrageous BS.)

@EdithStourton

Fair summary in two short sentences.

I described ST apparel choices to DH this am. It's one of the weird things that really bothers me - I'm so well socialised as a woman that I would never appear in a professional setting in such garb, but ST will. FFS.

three ;-)

Off to Durham for tomorrow’s miners gala.

So will be on catch up

Yes, yesterday’s dress was the kind of thing one would wear on a summers day out or at a BBQ. I’ve worked for places where it would not be acceptable office wear (even when jeans were ok) because bare shoulders/spaghetti straps were forbidden.

Do we have c&p volunteer(s) for this morning? I could possibly do later morning but not the first session.

Snap! I resent sounding like a mad internet conspiracy theorist when I share the facts and data calmly.

Ive given up explaining too much and stick the simple questions. How do you define a woman is it biology or a feeling? Can a woman have a penis? Being kind benefits whom - and who does it disbenefit.

not me this morning I'm afraid - going out momentarily [ETA in a moment - "momentarily" being one of those meaning-is-dialect-dependent things!]

I noticed that article too. I bet there are conniptions among some BBC staff.

I'm going out in 10 mins for half an hour. Can do it when I return if needed

I hope fervently that there are conniptions aplenty!

I bet the occasion triggered a shopping spree for a range of “suitable” outfits. TBF I’d probably do similar (though my choices might be rather more suitable).

From TT:

Good morning. This is the first morning session on 10th July, in the case of Samantha Tempest v DEFRA & Rural Payments Agency. We expect to start at 9.30am.

Our Substack page on the case contains all the previous sessions, background information, witness statements (after witnesses are sworn), a number of relevant documents, and a full list of abbreviations:
https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (the claimant or C) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN or IP). SEEN has been granted right to intervene.

We are a small group of volunteer citizen journalists. We receive no payment for our work. We accept paid subscriptions to our Substack to fund necessary expenses including travel, legal fees and digital costs. Please consider subscribing to our Substack, link in bio.

A reminder that our work is not a verbatim account or transcript of proceedings. We make our best efforts to report what is said and do so in good faith.

Abbreviations that may be used:
J - Employment Judge S.D. Robertson
P - one or other of the two lay panel members
ST/C - Samantha Tempest, claimant
HH - Helen Hogben, barrister for claimant
DEFRA/R1 - Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, first respondent
RPA/R2 - Rural Payments Agency, second respondent

Rs - First and second respondents
AL - Alexander Line, Respondents' Barrister
SEEN - Sex Equality and Equity Network - Civil Service
SEEN-DEFRA - the DEFRA branch of SEEN
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for SEEN as intervenor

CS: Civil Service
IX: Investigation
Grv: Grievance
WS: Witness Statement
CA: Carolyn Airs
ALB: Arm’s Length Bodies
NDPB: Non-Departmental Public Bodies
POC: Principles of Communication
DDTS: Digital Data and Technology
IAO: Information Asset Owners
GO: Group Owners

Still WFTCHTJ

I will c&p until/unless someone else takes over, but it will be on a very ad-hoc basis so please bear with me.

Thank you, fair lady!

<people starting to arrive in the courtroom>

Did they forget about the early start?

I can jump in; give me 10 minutes to fire up a ‘puter

From TT:

Everyone taking seats now

J - I think we are cont where we left off
HH you recall we were looking at 284 of the bundle - 8 Nov 2022 announcement SEEN suggested to you that 600 trans or allied colleagues had posted messages in support of C post.
J - we can see 646 we don't know who they are do we

HH - I will need moderation logs now.
J - let's just stop now
(some discussion)

<FFS already>

J - let's just stop now

At last, I agree with the judge

While we are waiting for them to sort themselves out, here are some abbreviations that TT plan to use this morning:
CS: Civil Service
IX: Investigation
Grv: Grievance
WS: Witness Statement
CA: Carolyn Airs
ALB: Arm’s Length Bodies
NDPB: Non-Departmental Public Bodies
POC: Principles of Communication
DDTS: Digital Data and Technology
IAO: Information Asset Owners
GO: Group Owners

From TT:

more reading of documents

HH - so beg at row 2 mod log, orig post ST and if we move along to row H and I we can see email sent to manager
CA - when we looked at posts if principles in effect, but because not in effect... (missed)

I'll keep going until you say ready @Madcats

A sincere thank-you to everyone making such effort to bring this important information to the attention of a wider audience. The questions raised by this access to fuller information go beyond the current case (though that is bad enough), e.g, waste of public resources, training of judges, abuse of the legal system- and who is funding this abuse?

[Should I be prepared for being chastised for not using the Oxford comma?😀]

Is this going to be another morning of HH droning on desperately trying to get CA to suddenly agree that the moon is indeed made of cheese?