Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

That’s falsely trying to be both opinionated and appear evenhanded. You can’t make a complaint and then say “if” guilty (or “if” upheld).

Once you make a complaint there’s no more “if” about it, from your perspective.

I can't be bothered to find out what their actual opposition was because it is bound to be batshit crazy and I can't be bothered expending the energy but I assume it was because its focus was on the female body and how it had been wholesale discounted in the design of the world, medicine etc. It underscores the fact that it is the material reality of sex which makes for the oppression and exclusion of women. This would makes TWAW argument conditional because the nature of oppression in real word terms is fully in evidence and it has nothing to do with the male body. Given that the female body has been so wholly discounted in every aspect of how the world is designed and managed it also reveals the pyschology of male entitlement actually functions. The research actually underscores in many ways how the entitlement of trans identifying men mirrors all aspects of the oppression of women.

She was helping ST to build his case for harrassment..but couldn't be seen to be doing so because that would infringe impartiality and fairness and equality in the workplace, and would make you look like a really vindictive, power driven manipulator.

AL - PQ former C, did you provide that evidence to PQ,
ED No, I didn't, it was a widely known fact that everyone knew who the owner of the Andi Abides account was.
AL did you tell C?
ED yes
AL did you do so, so that ST would look at them
ED no
AL was C building ET case at this point
ED no, I think it was still in g/x
AL it is reasonable to assume that if you told ST about it, they would go look at it
ED not how it works in our community, we warn each other about content to avoid. If I told ST about Andi account, ST already knew
AL - if C was exposed to that content, it's because you told them
ED that account was seeking out members of AG and attacking them on X, that's how ST knew about the content, I told DEFRA who it was on the account and they shrugged and said 'everybody knows'.

I do hope Elspeth is OK today, having to sit through this.

It is a very good book clearly showing the inbuilt prejudice towards and exclusion of women from being considered in decision making. I also am curious as what was controversial.

ED not how it works in our community, we warn each other about content to avoid. If I told ST about Andi account, ST already knew

She's suggesting that she only warned ST of objectionable content so that he wouldn't upset himself reading it. An act of kindness in respect of his great fragility.

Hard agree, it is also process-is-punishment as clear as day. She wanted AM to have to go about the world, amongst family friends and colleagues, and have to tell them he was suspended.

Christ, that must be a full time job, seeking out offence and warning everyone.

Does she expect DEFRA to monitor all staff's personal X accounts too?

AL it is reasonable to assume that if you told ST about it, they would go look at it

ED not how it works in our community, we warn each other about content to avoid. If I told ST about Andi account, ST already knew

Now this really is batshit! 'Warnings' are somehow passed amongst the 'community' [I'm still not clear what 'community' ED belongs to - not LGB or even T, if I understand rightly] but it isn't even necessary to tell each other because they somehow 'know' anyway.. telepathy?

It's her calling in life!

ED not how it works in our community, we warn each other about content to avoid.

Empress falls off chair laughing.
Either they do go and read it so they can use it to call people bigots, or they don't go and read it, rely on hearsay about what it says so they can use it to call people bigots.

.

Basically, they are trying to bully everyone at DEFRA too.

AL Nicola Betterworth was taking prompt action on complaint, sees it as urgent, is taking appropriate action given her role
ED I don't know what her role is, maybe a director but I guess so
AL - someone, Andrew Pierce, appointed to look into complaint, from his email, he's in En Ag.
ED yes
AL we can a letter sent to AM, appropriate that letter was sent to him, it impacts him
ED yes
AL and his decision was not to take further action
ED I don't know haven't read letter
AL do you want to read
ED yes

My note: I've just been informed that there's scones downstairs, hope they decide to break for lunch soon.

This clearly explains why they all hate JKR but none have read her words.

At last an answer.

I wonder who the brave soul was that read it and spread the word?

AL in summary, on evidence no conclusion that any relevant code of conduct was breached, so no further ation ED because he isn't a civil servant the code of conduct does not apply to him
J - he does say that, and also that the posts are not objectively offensive,

Considering she waves more red flags than a USSR parade I'd say it's a match made in Hell.

I can say this, cross X with NC is going to spark.

See previous posts - it commits the Mortal Sin of considering women to be a distinct category of humans, different in some, significant, ways from that other category, men.
Transphobic hate-speech, obvs...😒

Soul goddammit

AL thank you Judge, also says the code of conduct unlikely to have been breached by account AL so your complaint was not ignored
ED no
AL it was actioned, you asked for more information
ED at that stage he could have told more about the stage of the process,

He wasn't giving her exactly what she wanted, and this displeased her very much.

We get a lot of links to that American bloke Erin on here. Maybe he is the poor soul who has to actually read the hurty words.

Malevolent Tigger (with apologies to the real Tigger)

You mean downstairs at the trib, and the delicious smell may be wafting up to prompt them all to move along quickly?
or downstairs at yours?😄