Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

It's hard to imagine how anyone can be as wilfully blind as ED, even after she has been forced to read some of the comments about how pronouns made people feel.

Swyers syndrome must be one of the harder DSDs to deal with since you grow up as female and then discover you cant have biological children and have streak gonads. I'm guessing she wasnt told she had XY chromones at 14 and maybe not told she wouldnt be able to have children, maybe just told she'd need hormonal treatment. She may have only found out the whole story later and been very jealous of anyone able to get pregnant. That seems to have turned into hatred of women.

11. GC belief is fascist

I've seen T shirts saying I cant adult today, maybe just one saying Not Suitable for Adult Life (with "at any time" if you wish).

What this shows in grim detail is how unfit for purpose the civil service currently is. The idea that these adult toddlers have been allowed to take up so much time and money - all funded by the tax payer - to push their niche, anti social, GI beliefs - demonstrates the chaos that exists at the heart of national and local government.
Unbelievable and very depressing that successive governments have fostered this.

I have a toilet document full of research and data that proves everyone is affected by agenders preferred design of toilet (least of all affected are healthy men).

How are women going to talk about that though?

She's nearly 50 so 1990 when she's 14, so possible the advice was still don't tell the child the truth she doesn't need to know yet.

I'd be bloody raging finding out years after that that my own medical history had been hidden from me.

It must be such a head fuck.

I've skim caught up.

Surely there's a course of action if AL and NC think there's some funny buggery going on between ED and ST and their legal team.

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

I would put money on her having a very narrow scope when it comes to her D&I work.

Wait til you see what goes on in some banks. I’ve worked a few contracts there where men in dresses have been able to dictate toilet design, win “women’s” awards and change the wording to “birthing person” policy.

Don’t get comfy thinking it’s just the civil service. At least you can be plausibly outraged about taxpayer’s money, the private sector stuff you need to work out how to make an effective boycott work.

I was a civil servant in the 1980’s. It occurs to me that the civil servants benevolent fund, may be the funding source.

I have looked at there mission and accounts. IMO it is not beyond the realms of possibility.

The benevolent fund is a registered charity and its trustees and senior staff are listed. I am not on LinkedIn, but it might be worth some sleuthing there to see if there are any connections.

On the bright side, I’m sure we can all help our incoming PM make some of the necessary savings

Maybe ED should spend less time interacting with the Alphabetty Groups and find a DSD Support group.

She is what she is, it's not her fault, it's not her parents fault, it's nobody's fault she was just born with an anomaly on her sex chromosomes, so it certainly isn't the fault of women who weren't.

She still a women, even if she can't have children, she needs to come to terms with that, instead of burying herself in a made up drama llama fantasy narrative. I think calling herself Intersex is more about the self loathing she feels because she's not like other women.

Given how old she is there is no excuse for her behaviour, it's time to grow now ED, stop trying to punish women for your 'variation'.

This.

I would be more than prepared to hear it goes even further and there is a fixed, rigid belief of what DEI is and which groups are involved. Like 'inclusion', it's become another word for 'trans'.

Very well worth repeating.

The Benevolent Fund website states that they don't cover legal costs (from the financial assistance section)

Legal costs and advice
We don’t cover legal costs, including visas, passports, or solicitors’ fees, and we’re not able to advise on Civil Service employment disputes. For general information on legal issues, please see our Law Express app.

My understanding is that generally unions / charities etc won't support legal action unless they think there is a reasonably high chance of success.

I imagine there is a donor behind this who wants to overturn Forstater / Woriads or at least bring it into question.

Was RMW acting pro bono when he was involved?

CONCLUSION
40. I give this evidence as the Chair and now Co-Chair of a:gender. I have had a unique vantage point from which to observe the impact of SEEN across the civil service, and in particular within the Defra group where the problems were most acute. I have seen the working lives of so many lovely transgender, non-binary and intersex people overturned by the way some departments encourage and legitimise the manifestation of pretty much any gender-critical views.

I want to take issue with this part of the statement . She has no idea of the impact of SEEN across the Civil Service, because A gender have not surveyed across the entire CS. She only has an understanding of a small group of individuals.

FWIW most civil servants pay little attention to these groups, though it's obvious they have heavily influenced policy. For those involved in DEI roles it's sometimes a good route to promotion because many senior leaders are enthralled by this stuff.

The way she tells it in this video (starting at about 9:45 min), she was told at 14 that

• her ovaries had not developed,
• they would have to be removed
• she would need to take HRT

so I don't think anything was actually hidden from her. It sounded more like she did not like the framing - apparently the word "malformed" was used although I think it is unlikely that was used to describe her as a person, maybe it was a reference to her ovaries? But whatever exactly was said to her, she felt hurt and insulted by it. And then at about 12:30 she describes finding Swyer's on a list of intersex conditions and she sounds almost extatic in disclaiming "Wow, I'm not even female!" It was just so much more exciting and flattering than having to live as a sterile woman I guess. (She then talks about how stigmatising 'intersex' as a label is but that kinda contradicts her glee from before.)

m.youtube.com/watch?v=pATucq495Ig&pp=ygUSRW1tYSBkdW5uIGludGVyc2V40gcJCWQCo7VqN5tD#

Burnham's wife is one of the Trustees of Plan International, who describe themselves as trans inclusive. His kids have grown up attending Pride events with him. His party is blatantly misogynist. I'd really like to be able to go back to voting Labour but he'll need to show some opening to discussion. He can start by meeting Rosie Duffield and persuading her to rejoin Labour.

this is better

Good grief. I had assumed one base and that's why they are so far behind in some of their work (nearly 9 months for house sales last year). If i was looking for cuts i would certainly be asking wtf they are playing at if they have so many offices 😮

Pretty easy to understand why they are 9 months behind if the staff have all these networks to occupy them.

Grade 7 is the starting point for qualified lawyers with any experience to speak of, so they wouldn't be running a big team.

We sponsored a girl through Plan. Our money went to her community school which built girls’ toilets so girls could attend school.

Still catching up, and just spat my drink at
NC: Didn't you do a survey